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Iraq TV shows 5 Americans being interigated. Iraq TV shows other Americans dead. Shot in the forehead. Saddam calls Americans the 'evil agression' Saddam also says: Evil shall suffer. Pay for this (American) crime against the humanity (American) terrorist will be afraid Enemy (American) troops are weak and we(Iraq) will defeat the,. (Iraq) troops are blessed and inspired by God and Ghihad. Long Iraq! What a bitch! He called us terrorist, week... :wow: :mad: :banghead: Saddam :mingun: |
Wow...a lot of good opinions and great to hear some of them that are well thought out and well spoken (or written).
I guess deep down i agree with what alexgc said and also would just like to chime in with the fact that NONE of us will really know all of what the TRUTH is on either side. It is a shame in any situation where people die, whether it be while working hard in the tallest building in NYC or while being invaded at your home in Iraq. I do find that basically nothing in history in any country's past has not cast the first stone. Every country has a violent past to get things they wanted. Government's and People are greedy at their most base of reactions. It just so happens that at this point and time the USA is the only "superpower" and we will be judged in every occasion that we take action for whatever reason. Don't get me wrong here...I in no way support violent resolution to any problem...unless someone hits me first. |
My Cousin is serving in the royal engineers and is somewhere in southern Iraq he is only 21 and been in the army for just 10 months.We just hope he comes back soon ,i know war is crap but sometimes it happens it just human nature all i can say is this Bush and Blair must know Saddam is hiding sometime cause there risking thier careers so even if your against this attack remeber that most of the troops are the same ages as most of you and there just doing a job ...u should be proud of your country and wish them luck coz it looks like its going to be a long war......
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how can you be PROUD of THIS?
sorry, but if a few ppl can start a war like this and bring pain and death in many families something can't be right with a society like this?!? and bush & co are speaking about geneva convention and stuff like this and they are doing the same terrible things behind closed doors? the whole war is illegal and bush & co should be punished for starting this war!! |
abra nobody is "proud" of war...Im proud of the bravery of ppl willing to fight for what they believe in and fight for the sancitity of other ppls lives...I dont like war, but i know that sometimes its the only option.
As for this idea of bringing pain and death to families, do u not think saddam is doing enough of that on his own? Would u rather things stayed as they were? Yes it is a fact of war that it costs lives - and nobody is happy about it, but many people accept this as part and parcel of achieveing something greater... and I have to say this - and i know it may well be contentious - so by all means it can be blanked out...but im getting the impression alot lately that all these anti-war feelings are just anti-Bush feelings. Dont get me wrong, im not saying i support Bush, but it looks like ppl are using the war as a vehicle to attack him... |
i know that nobody is proud of war!
but i know also that nobody (without propaganda) wants to go to war! and nobody is proud to kill ppl... and that is what i'm not content with! if u watch cnn all u can see is propaganda!!! the same on the other side of course, it's still a dictature! and to the anti-bush feelings: i don't like bush since he is president of the usa! all he wants is war and the other thing he does is lobbying for the spender in the industry! and the worsest of all: the coalition had attacked without the UN OK! so, is this RIGHT? but, before and after the iran-iraq war iraq wasn't even in the us-list of the terrorist countries ! why? because the us needed them, and now after the sowjets they don't need him any longer and now he has to go! i wouln'd say one word, if the coalition attacked him when he was getting stronger and stronger! |
Abra - One reason the UN has not approved is down to money. Russia, France and Germany in one way or another are owed ALOT of money by Iraq, therefor its in the best immediate interests to oppose anything regarding invasion.
The problem with anything as controversial as this is that probably only about 0.00001% of the worlds population know the whole truth about what is really going on, and what the real reasons are. All we can do is interpret what the media feeds us, which will most likely be some form of lies or propoganda and is (imo) the most depressing fact of any of it - we have all these strong opinions about things we arent allowed to properly understand. btw nice post Alex - i think you pretty much hit the nail on the head with alot of what you said. |
yeah kal u r absolutely right - its upto us to make a valued judgment on what we see and hear and read. We mustnt take any one view for granted that it is entirely the truth. Today, the media is one half of the battle, so of course its not going to be 100% legitimate.
But for me the whole point is this. It doesnt matter how much propaganda there is around us, because most ppl have the intelligence to realise that u can always see who is in the right and who is in the wrong. The truth will always out...especially on a scale such as this... |
I appreciate what you've said alexgc. One of my fears of these kind of posts being allowed, was that it would create animosity between the members. I'm glad it's not totally turning out that way. And I hope it doesn't, because this is a great place, and I'd hope no one gets offended or hurt because of contrasting views.
God Bless, George |
agreed George :)
I dont think it will affect our attitude toward eachother...after all we are all here for the sake of our art and no war can change that. Its healthy that everyone can express their opinion and so far there has been no animosity and I dont expect there to be any. It appears that everyone understands we all own the right to have a say and I think we all know that just because one person has a belief in something - it doesnt neccessarily mean it is right. Im open to all arguements. I dont think anybody is so shallow as to dissmiss all views other than their own. Anyway, as i said, we are here for our art and that is the main thing :) |
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I'm sorry but as hard as you try you can't raise a topic like this on a forum like this and not be unbiased. I voted for George Bush and I support the effort over there. If everyone else on this forum can express their views about this then so can I. I stand by my convictions as an American and if I get blacklisted for my way of thinking then so be it. |
Hehe.. I too voted for Bush Hildalgo :) It's always incouraging to see the approval polls. Last I saw was a 70% approval rating for Bush.... Nice!
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alex, you said earlyer that a majority of ppl are in favour of the war. I hardly think this is true since all the opinion meters (not sure about the ones in usa) show that over 50% are against it.
Not all people (including myself) feel like they have to go march on the streets for it though. If you're so worried about the soldiers there, why do you still support the fact that they're out there? You might aswell try to convince bush, blair and co to get them out of there before more casualties fall. Ofcourse I understand this would be embarassing for your country, but there are many other ways to get to Sadam I'm sure. I'm pretty sure this war is about oil and intimidating the arab world from within, because if you go after Saddam for being a horrible dictator you might aswell go fight all the other dictators around the world (I can assure there are a lot of them). I'm quite sure the people in Iraq would be more happy if you can get rid of Saddam in a peaceful way that will show them much less harm than dropping bombs on their country. (these also hit them a lot) I agree with you that Saddam should've been removed in the first golf war (plz don't think that I like this schmuck), but certainly not now because he is a global threat to the western world. This he is certainly not! Terrorist organisations like Al Quada (and many more) are much more interested in hurting us. You also say "For sure he has been working on manufacturing weapons of mass destruction. The weapons inspectors have never disputed this fact." Ofcourse they don't, but now they were seriously starting to get a better opinion about Iraq's weapons and within a few months they would've been finished with their report. (the 120 day plan of dr. Hans Blix wich was unfortunatly not heard because Bush started that 48 hours ultimatum) If most of the countries feel they should give inspectors more time, what makes the us and britain have the right to make it happen like they want it? Because of their military power? Now who's 'the bad guy'! Another thing I don't agree on: "Were we supposed to stand idly by? As citizens of the most prosperous nations on Earth, it is our duty to help make everyone lives as fair and decent as we can." If I'm not mistaken, international aid workers would do a much finer job than the military if only they got as much funding as the war does. Sry for the length of this post, just wanted to share my opinion here too. Alex or others who support him, plz don't feel personally insulted. This is not what I'm trying to achieve! As long as I don't know someone, I'll wait before judging him/her too hard. I'm sure there can be found wonderful people in all parts of the world. racism is for ignorants if you ask me. plz feel free to comment on any of this. |
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The fact is, he's the main guy who TELLS us about what's going on, so people automatically blame him for everything. I realize that as President, that blame for everything comes with the job (if things go well, you're great, if things go bad, you're terrible, even if you personally didn't do a thing different either way. lol). |
>alex, you said earlyer that a majority of ppl are in favour of the war. I hardly >>>think this is true since all the opinion meters (not sure about the ones in usa)
>show that over 50% are against it. Actually, I hardly think that is true, since most of the polls I've seen, (including US and Britian polls) support what needs to be done. >If you're so worried about the soldiers there, why do you still support the fact >that they're out there? You might aswell try to convince bush, blair and co to >get them out of there before more casualties fall. Ofcourse I understand this >would be embarassing for your country, but there are many other ways to get >to Sadam I'm sure. Well I, am worried for them, but support that they're out there because I support the cause and their mission. I don't see how it would be embarassing? It would be sad for the Iraqi people especially if we left this half done.. that would be a mistake.. to bomb the cities and everything being done, only to leave them in shambles and not complete what's being set out to do? No, that would be way wrong. >I'm pretty sure this war is about oil and intimidating the arab world from within, >?because if you go after Saddam for being a horrible dictator you might aswell >go fight all the other dictators around the world (I can assure there are a lot of >them). Na, that's not it. It's been said, time and again, that it's to liberate the Iraqi people from this thug. If it was for oil, why didn't we do it durning the gulf war? Why aren't we going after others like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, that have oil too? There's no need to intimidate, they are well aware. It's a matter of bringing peace to the region, and for peace to be there, Saddam needs to leave. He did not, so it's his fault this is happening. >I'm quite sure the people in Iraq would be more happy if you can get rid of >Saddam in a peaceful way that will show them much less harm than dropping >bombs on their country. (these also hit them a lot) Again, he was told to leave.. what more could be done? >I agree with you that Saddam should've been removed in the first golf war (plz >don't think that I like this schmuck), but certainly not now because he is a >global threat to the western world. This he is certainly not! Terrorist >organisations like Al Quada (and many more) are much more interested in >hurting us. How do you know he's not a threat? He has he changed since the first gulf war? No! I doubt anyone would believe he's not a threat. It's also been confirmed that there are connections between Al Quada and Hussein. >You also say "For sure he has been working on manufacturing weapons of mass >destruction. The weapons inspectors have never disputed this fact." >Ofcourse they don't, but now they were seriously starting to get a better opinion >about Iraq's weapons and within a few months they would've been finished with >their report. (the 120 day plan of dr. Hans Blix wich was unfortunatly not heard >because Bush started that 48 hours ultimatum) >If most of the countries feel they should give inspectors more time, what makes >the us and britain have the right to make it happen like they want it? >Because of their military power? Now who's 'the bad guy'! I don't know about you, but 12years seems like a long time to me. It's obvious Hussein was using a delay tactic, like he did in 98'. One week he said he didn't have any missles(can't remember the name of the missle) next week, Oops they have some. He was given too much time. The bad guy is Saddam! Who do you think it is? >Another thing I don't agree on: "Were we supposed to stand idly by? As citizens >of the most prosperous nations on Earth, it is our duty to help make everyone >lives as fair and decent as we can." >If I'm not mistaken, international aid workers would do a much finer job than >the military if only they got as much funding as the war does. Yeah, you are mistaken. sorry. I don't think Aid workers could get Saddam to leave the country. Saddam has violated too many of the guidlines set since the gulf war, like the food for oil program.. He didn't give the food to his people like he was supposed to. Freedom isn't free.. there is a price to pay. Thank God for countries that care about other countries well being. How easy it would be to turn away and not care about anyone but ourselves, but that is not the right thing to do. I hope this sharing of opinions will help us get through this. George |
Hehehe, that's true McKinley :) Congress, both democrat and republican have voted unanimously in support of the war.
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ok. Now some people are saying 'How can you be proud of this' country'
If you actualy beleive that this is a bad country., i must say, you are the stupidest ass ever. There are alot of countries out there, where if you protested against the war, you cuold be killed. Saddam helped out with the 911 attacks. In my mind, he is almost as bad as Ossama. Some of our troops must die. Some civilians in Iraq are going to die. But in turn, we will be able to stop Saddam from use Nucks, or Bio-Chem weapons, or aiding other terrorists in the destruction of our country. He called us evil. He said that god has promised our downfall. If that dosn't sound like somebody who is going to do anything they can to kill inocent people, (He killed a few thousand of his own people with musard gas) then you should just move to the moon and forget about it. |
about the polls, it's your word against mine. I won't convince you and you won't convince me I'm sure.
the embarassement part is something I thought the americans might have since they're so patriotic and love their army for being the strongest in the world. However, by pulling out of there, I didn't mean to let it be like it is now. Ofcourse We'll all have to help rebuild Iraq and continue with diplomacy in a peaceful way. Plz don't believe everything the media tells you. It's full of propaganda on cnn, don't know about the other channels in us, since I can't see them. You augt to see european newsreports on this. Much more objective, since we're not directly involved in it. and why is it that you have authorization to decide who can be leader of a country and who can't? I think this is more of a matter for the international community to agree on (UN). What more could be done??? Listen to the rest of the world's leaders! Listen to all professors who are studying this crisis. Not all peaceful means have been used, so stop going to war so fast! How is Saddam a threat to you? He has a very weak army and is absolutely not threatening anyone. The only people that suffer are his own, but surely there are other ways to help them. So let's just make it very clear here: IRAQ FORMS NO THREAT TO THE USA. TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS DO. Seriously now, it's been confirmed that there are links between Iraq and Al Quada? THERE IS NO PROOF AT ALL!!!! Rumsfeld says that to get you all to go to war, but he has no proof at all! They're still searching for it, but have not found it. Why do you think this is called an unlegitimate war?? Since he was on the edge of being attacked it seems reasonable that he held some weapons back. He's also a patriotic guy who wants the best for his country. Unfortunatly he does this in a disturbed way. Oh and let's see how many secret weapons the US is developing atm. I'm sure the inspectors would find a lot more in your weapon labs than in all of the middle east. You obviously didn't understand what I ment about the aidworkers. If they are allowed to help the people with more funding, then the people will be better (obvious isn't it) Meanwhile however... the UN and inspectors keep pressure on Saddam so he gets rid of his weapons. Then he can't do much harm to anyone. Plz understand that a lot of countries are sick and tired of your interventions. Why can't you let the international community (UN and NATO for example) decide together what the best solutions for wolrdproblems are, while we all solve problems in our own countries (like the economy problems now)? They are all experts, the americans don't necessarily know all things best. 1 more thing: doesn't it seem odd to you that under Clinton economy was going fine and no one had to worry about Iraq. Now along comes Bush jr. and all goes downhill in economy and you've had 2 wars in 2 years. think about it. again, don't take any of this as an insult plz. Feel free to comment. I rather like this thread. |
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What is the average income of this self-appointed dictator's people? ...like $70 a month (not to mention that he is only dictator because he killed the dictator before him). Just looking at how he runs this, would it make any sense to send a bunch of aid workers over there and hand over money, food, materials to this guy?...because don't fool yourself if you think he would distribute this to the people whom really need it. Listen, there is never a good reason to kill someone for your own benefit, but can anyone here stand up and say that their country did not do this?...or at least convince the UN to use the US to do this for them?...thanks a million France. -drj |
Ultragames seriously now.
where do you get the idea that Saddam has Nukes and is linked to terrorists? Until you get some real proof to state this, plz stop about it. It's stuff that Rumsfelld and Powell want you to believe, even though it has been proven by inspectors that they couldn't possibly have this kind of weapons. He did not help out with 911 attacks, you must be mistaking him with Taliban and warlords in Afghanistan. And ofcourse he's calling you criminals, you're invading his country ffs! He's saying all that shit about the US to motivate his troops in combat (and he's doing quite a good job, let's not deny it). Let's just hope he doesn't do a too good job or you're all screwed. If Korea decides to send a test missile over your west coast, you'll call them criminals too. Edit: forgot one more thing Isn't Bush constantly saying "may God bless America and our troops"? I don't see how this is different for Saddam. Plz note also that the pope himself is against Bush for saying that. Surely Bush doesn't feel he knows better about what God would want and what not. I'm atheist btw, do don't go preaching me about God plz:)j/k |
it looks like what the US has gotten out of being the UN Police for so many years is just disgust from other nations. I hate to say it, but I really wish we would step back and not be involved except for in our own country anymore. Taking care of all our own problems here at home..even though it would be selfish at least people wouldn't hate us anymore...I guess until they needed help from the UN again and there wasn't anyone there to help them.
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It is called a dirty bomb. It uses depleated Urainium. I my self know how to make one, why couldn't Saddam. I dont personaly know how he had aided Terrorists. I dont realy watch CNN that closly. But I do know, that it had been mentioned in Pres. Bush speaches, and on many news channels.
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and what is exactly your proof that he isn't funding the Taliban or Al Quada? |
Ok. Im done with this topic before I realy get mad. All of you anti-American shit heads realy piss me off. If you dont suport the war fine. But support the troops. Support the people that are forced to go out, and risk there lives, to help inocent people from a violent dictator.
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c'mon Ultra don't give up...its just harmless debate.
I even admit that all of this could have been handled better by the US. But everyone's history has blood on its shores. All things that make a difference in this world politically have been looked at poorly until years later. Everyone's media is full of propaganda. It's easy to look and judge from some places in this world. But if the US hadn't stepped in during other parts of history I wonder how some of us might have grown up differently. I guess we will never know...but go ahead and bash us anyway! -drj |
Hey d24e im not offended in the slightest, in fact quite the opposite, im pleased that u want to contest my views :)
I would like to reply to some of ur own comments tho if i may. Quote:
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I dont know if u have heard but the coalition forces are also fighting against an Al Qaeda related terrorist group in Northern Iraq (name escapes me at the mo). So this suggestion the Iraq has no links to Al Qaeda is unfounded. Quote:
Most of the countries didnt necessarily want to give the weapons inspectors more time, it's that they didnt want to goto war without UN backing. In fact only a few countries wanted inspectors to have more time. Furthermore its quite suspicious that those countries that did oppose have vested interests in Iraq... Quote:
Ultragames, calm down mate - there is no need to get worked up. Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether u think it is right or wrong. I think everyone hopes for the safety of all troops and civilians involved in the war :) And guys...lets keep it civilised :D btw - do u have any idea how long it has taken me to get all the bold and quote bits correct lolol I might start a war over it :argue: |
Hehe.. it's obvious your mind will not be changed :) I would change my mind if anything you said made sense. CNN is so anit american, that I can't stand watching it. Believe me, some news casters are more anti war than you could possibly be. If european countries were not at all involved in this, they wouldn't care would they? I'm sure there's propaganda there as well.
>How is Saddam a threat to you? He has a very weak army and is absolutely not >threatening anyone. The only people that suffer are his own, but surely there >are other ways to help them. So let's just make it very clear here: >IRAQ FORMS NO THREAT TO THE USA People were saying the same thing about Al Quada and Bin Laden just before 9-11. >He's also a patriotic guy who wants the best for his country Wow, now I know you are very ill informed. hehe.. >1 more thing: doesn't it seem odd to you that under Clinton economy was going >fine and no one had to worry about Iraq. Now along comes Bush jr. and all goes >downhill in economy and you've had 2 wars in 2 years. think about it. Clinton is one the worst presidents we've ever had, it's a known fact. How many iraqi's died during the mid/late 90's? under oppression? not free? We're here now cause he didn't do anything! Things have changed since 9-11 We're not going to wait around for something to happen. Also Clinton went to war on Kosovo without the support of the UN. Further more, there are 30 countries in this coalition, supporting the war. Anyways, you're getting off track. This war is to liberate the Iraqi people from a ruthless dictator, and to ensure peace for you and everyone else. No matter how you look at it, that's how it is, that's what it is. |
---- "And ofcourse he's calling you criminals, you're invading his country ffs! He's saying all that shit about the US to motivate his troops in combat (and he's doing quite a good job, let's not deny it). Let's just hope he doesn't do a too good job or you're all screwed." -----
You know how he is motivating his troops to go into combat? well... first of all.. iraq is a VERY VERY rich country... But instead of saddam taking the money to rebuild and reform the country and all... he spends it all on himself! he has tons and tons of his own palaces that are worth countless amount of money... with amazing architecture.. and even toilets made of gold!! None of the people in his country have any freedom, and are also very poor. So then the question "why dont the people just vote him out of his dictatorship?" may come up... well.. if anybody said ANYTHING bad about him or the way he rules iraq they would be imediatly exicuted.. when they had the vote to keep him as a dictator, 100% of the people voted for him to stay... do you think thats because they like the way he is ruling everybody? no! its because they will execute anybody that votes againt him. Do you know how he is 'motivating' his troops to fight in the war? well.. its not because they are so patriotic and just love there country so much.. its because he pays $25,000 to these people that are sooo poor, and have no food and no humane places to live.. and will protect there families if they capture and kill one of our people. he also says stuff on iraqi tv like "god has ordered you to cut there(the people trying to give the iraqi people freedom) throats." And also... they will make innocent civilians fight us in the war.. or else he will kill both them, and there families! This isnt a peaceful guy! you cant just talk to him and explain how he shouldnt be doing bad things... or else he will just have you killed. IF the US wanted to, we could just bomb Iraq to the point where there would be no people living there at all.. and even spare the oil and take it (which we would never do of course!) we are only bombing his palaces, and wherever else we believe him and his leaders are.. so we can free iraq and hopefully there country can start running like normal again! I dont know what 'propaganda' you are listening to... but the people in the US arent die hard military fans... i mean, we support our arms forces and all.. but not to the point where we will all feel embarassed and boycot our government if they dont kill alot of people or make a mistake. I want some of you to imagine what it would be like to live in Iraq. Imagine if... you knew that he just killed thousands of people by testing out how harmful mustard gas is, and you wanted to get out of the country, but you knew that you couldnt, or else you and your loved ones would be killed. Don't you think you would be glad that somebody is trying to come to help you? History repeats itself.. We could have prevented the deaths of the countless amount of people that died in the holocaust before it happend.. and we could have prevented the thousands of innocent people that died in the world trade center attacts (many of the people were mothers and fathers to kids parents in my school) but we didnt want to get involved! So do you understand why its a good thing that we are getting involved now? Im glad we arent just going to let them do what ever they want.. because who knows that if in 5-10 years, saddam somehow gets a chemical or biological weapon over into the us, or in england, and kills one of us?? This war was our last resort. we have done EVERY thing we can to avoid it. But in the end, there is nothing else we could have done or said to get this guy to stop treating his people so horrible, and stop the threats he has on all of us. Im sorry, im not that good at writing. Just do the best to try and understand what i am saying. |
And also.. just to let some people know... the US is has the right to take away some of our rights during times of crisists and war.
And also, from what i hear (im not posotive!!) there are some pro war protest going on in NYC. :) |
here is a link to what some people might consider propaganda...I don't know what these people would have to gain by making this up, but maybe they would.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_...son_of_saddam/ |
I'm getting quite close to closing this thread... I'll give it another chance, though. NO COUNTRY BASHING. I don't care what country it is.
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sweet, got a lot of replys here. Some of them I found true, some not.
let me just go over some of those... (here we go again, lol:D) ultragames, I've heard of plans to make A-bombs on the internet (my brother saw it few years ago). However that doesn't mean every Joe can make one, cuz the stuff that's dangerous in them is highly illegal and hard to get to. And plz, stop believing what Bush says in his speeches. It is just filled with dumb statements that are very contradictory to what professors and doctors have to say about it (and I do believe they still know best). drj, I could ask you the same question: What's your proof that there IS a link between them? I am just saying, until there is proof that he does we should assume that he doesn't (like the justice system in many free countries). Not come up with made-up information (like Powell did, this was confirmed by the inspectors) I said this in one of my first msg's: "As long as I don't know someone, I'll wait before judging him/her too hard." What I ment by this is: I don't have any problems with the troops or with all of you personally. I do have a problem with the mentality that war is the answer at this time, when there was clearly more time for diplomacy. Be it convenient or not to wait another 2-3 months. alex, I'm not sure what you're implying in your first reply, but plz know that I am defenitly anti-war. Maybe in US and Britain you have many people that support the war, but in rest of the world people are either neutral or against it. Sometimes this is not represented by their governement though. (eg: spain) The peaceful ways have NOT been exhausted, that's exactly my point and that of Belgium, France and Germany (and less active governements who are against) Dr Blix said that he needed only 120 days until he was done, what is so long about that if you can avoid a war and casualties by it? btw: covert assasination missions were undertaken by US and who knows else, but they failed. Saddam's too clever it seems. Why is it that only the US has to go after these countries, why not get support from others? If he can give them a legitimate reason to fight them, they'll certainly come along. I know that Iraq has some big issues with Israël, so why don't we just send more Patriot systems to the allied countries in middle east (like NATO did with turkey and US with Israel) instead of invading the other country just because it's more convenient for our economy? plz no more stuff about US wants to get rid of saddam, not for oil. There is simply no reason for US to this legitimate. You can't go invade other countries as you seem fit. And this is exactly what US is doing now. Yes inspectors have had a lot of problems with Iraq, but finally this is over (because of UN pressure) and we are allowed. Now before their job is over, you want to go further. This is simply mad. The opposing countries aren't the only ones with vesting interests in Iraq. So do the US. Bush is not crazy enough to risk his soldiers for getting rid of one man if there was no benefit afterwards. aid workers and military side by side, idd! That'd be perfect. Just like that plan of inspectors under supervision of UN troops. What US is doing however, is have only military get involved. cgcastro plz quote my entire sentence wich is this: "He's also a patriotic guy who wants the best for his country. <b>Unfortunatly he does this in a disturbed way.</b>" I believe that in a way this man loves his country, only he has a sick way of expressing it (eg: killing his own people) You could say the same about Hitler, surely he loved his country but he's just freakin' mad in showing it! Clinton helped to get your economy up a lot. It seems to me you should all appreciate this. Now look at the situation in your country, many people are losing jobs (also in Europe as a consequence), while the rich get more prosperous by Bush's tax reliefs. Why not make sure all is well in your own country before going off for war on your own. Let the international organisations do this. 30 countries in that coalition, yes. You may find it interesting to know that Belgium is also in this! Because we give transport by boat in our port (Antwerp) for US weapons. Meanwhile our government is anti-war as hell! Also you'll find many other countries in that coalition who have nothing to do with it and who don't support it. Some easter-european and south-american countries, they are just walking along with Bush for the money. Not because they want Saddam gone. |
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When a subject like this comes up, everyone has their own view and there are as many different opinions as there are people on the board. The longer this thread stays up, the more it will degrade. I, for one, enjoy the experience of seeing others' ideas and learning from them here. I'm here to learn more about Maya, not to get into a political discussion (argument) about how the world is being run. |
dbirider
I must have given the wrong impression here about my feelings for Saddam. I am aware of all the horrible stuff this man has done, and I do want him out of the country or dead. But once again I say: An unlegitimate war, not supported by the UN is not the way to handle this best! You say:" This war was our last resort. we have done EVERY thing we can to avoid it. But in the end, there is nothing else we could have done or said to get this guy to stop treating his people so horrible, and stop the threats he has on all of us." If you would just listen to what the inspectors, Blix and Baradhei said you would know that this is not true. If you gave them a few more months time, and they concluded that Iraq had such weapons, I assure every member of UN security council would support the US. But you simply can't take such matters into your own hands because you're the strongest nation of the world. Do you know that the current gouverment in Afghanistan is doing almost nothing about the warlords that are regaining control and letting Al Qaeda back to their cave hideouts? The situation for civilians there has not improved at all. This is a fact, sad as it may be. So I'm afraid the same will happen to Iraq. plz Mike don't close this thread. I'm not trying to bash other countries or persons here, just saying how I think it is. Hidalgo, I'm sure there are a lot of you that don't care at all about this discussion. But some of us do care and like arguing with eachother (I know I do that's for sure) so why not ignore us and leave us be. Eventually it'll die out I'm sure. |
I agree. No country bashing. How ever. I think everyones opinion has been stated. Any further coments may lead to fighting. Dont want that.
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Boy D24e, Talk about propaganda...
Your comments about the US suggest that you speak for your WHOLE country and that you are a human lie detector...always assuming that Bush, Powell or anyone (except Suddam) is lying. The fact is that he had what some 12 years to disarm after the first time we went through this...and at some point during this period he would not cooperate with the inspectors...so why wait more? Sure we could keep waiting in hopes that he would secretly fund another attack at innocent bystanders on our soil and hide behind the UN and their rules...sure I guess we could let this go on for years while he plays hide and seek with inspectors (whom were probably scared to death while they were trying to do their job...what great working conditions...at least soldiers can defend themselves if something does happen). The truth is that none of us want anyone to die, but sometimes before you die of old age you might have to stand for something. |
Ok, d24e, now you're getting off topic by trying to bash bush. I doubt you know him, and yet you proceed to judge him. See, that's the problem with these kind of posts, people start putting their views that are so out of whack and it's just unfortunate.
So enough bashing of our President, because you are bashing our country, not just him, because the majority are with the president. It's not Bush alone, it's all of us. View it how ever you want, the fact is 30 countries are in this coalition, and if Belgium is in it, they're a part of it, so you should bash your own country instead. It may seem fun to you, but it's serious stuff, it's already happening.. All we can hope for now is a quick resolution, with minimal casulties. So let's get praying. George |
Well.. i wasnt saying all that stuff to you. Most of it was just me venting a little bit... and i enjoy debating every once in a while to.
but anyway, its not just that he poses a threat to us.. but he poses a threat to our allies. I think somebody that tells the people of the country, that he will pay lots of money to there families if they suiside bomb the Israil people. We dont just want to go around killing all the iraqies, we just want to kill the leaders. Mike!!! dont close this thread! I dont think anybody is getting to serious. its just a fun debate on a very important event that is currently going on. |
c'mon...there is no reason to close this thread. Freedom of speech. No one should be offended...censor yourself by not reading this thread if its offensive.
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