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mtmckinley 23-03-2003 04:02 PM

That's an interesting thread you linked to, wchamlet, and am impressed by the civility. I would implore that we do the same, that's all.

kal 23-03-2003 04:16 PM

nintendo fans are always nice people :)

wchamlet 23-03-2003 04:24 PM

Makes you wonder if the anti-war effort would even consider doing something to actually help the Iraqi's. War is already upon Iraq. How much will it take to rebuild it? I'd be surprised that half of the anti-war associates wouldn't even consider changing their stance, and start relief funds instead. IMO, that would be much more constructive than massing together in protesting marches. How many millions of dollars do you think they can gather for the Iraqi people?

I'm just glad that the US led attacks didn't do the airstrikes like they said they would. That in and of itself probably save thousands of peoples lives. I just hope it's over soon. I fear Baghdad is not going to be an easy place to secure.

essahc 23-03-2003 05:24 PM

I myself cannot argue with a word of WCHAMLET's sentiments.
I can only speak for what I see. But I have not heard one person who does not support the soldier in his mission. The sentiment here is that We as a country do not have the right to make this war and that If this was about those people and their plight then we would not protest.
If the people of Iraq ever ask me to help rid themselves of their goverment, then I will beg my president to help them. But I live in an oil rich nation who has no reason to act as it is doing so today. And it should be acknowleged that the politics of that nation are of my own governments making. I protest because of my patriotic love of my country. I pray thanks to god that I live in a country where I can disagree openly with my governments actions without the assumtion that I do not support my country and its people. I also agree that Saddam is a rotten leader who should not be in power. But I strongly disagree with this action and I believe my children will pay a price for its audacity.
I myself am from a millitary family. I have loved ones in Iraq, at this moment in harms way. Once deployed I pray all of these men and women see a quick and victorious end to this insane use of my presidents power.
this is only my two cents.

alexgc 24-03-2003 01:47 AM

Ive found it very interesting and enlightening to read ppl's thoughts on this so I thought id just share my feelings on what has been said so far...comments welcome...

First of all, I think u will find that the majority of ppl are in favour of the war. Ok u r talking about substantial numbers of ppl demonstrating, but in the whole scheme of things....its not "most ppl"...You are never going to see pro-war protests...

Mike I can understand why u r fed up of the US being "babysitters" as u put it - it is sad because alot of the time it is thrown back in ur face...Im not saying that US foriegn policy is always right and just, but there has always seemed to be uncalled for anti-us sentiment. It stems more often than not from jealousy (IMHO)

As far as the war itself goes, what should be foremost in our minds now is support for our troops out there...Whether u argue for or against this action we should remember what our countrymen are going through at this very moment. There can be nothing like the experience and fear of being in the front line...

My own opinion is that Saddam Hussein needs to be ousted one way or the other. Irrespective of the weapons of mass destruction debate, Iraq's human rights record is appalling. What I find hard to accept, are particular arguments put forward by the anti-war movement. The claim that the war would cause its own humanitarian crisis and suggestions that, as there is no concrete evidence of a presence of weapons of mass destruction, there is no justification for engaging in conflict. Surely the whole point of this conflict is to free the Iraqi people of such a barbaric and inhumane regime? This suggestion the the US is after Iraqi oil is old and tired. While the accusation could be levelled against the first Gulf war it cant be done so here. I think the genuine reason in this case is national and global security. There is a deadly and serious threat here, something that the world has not encountered before. In any case, we know that Saddam's regime have used chemical weapons against his own ppl in kurdish northern iraq in the late 80's and against Iran during the Iran/Iraq war. Surely even past misdemeanours like this should be enough to bring this regime to book? Quite frankly, Saddam should have been removed after the Gulf war.

And as far as war in general is concerned, nobody likes war. Would anyone in their right mind seriously risk their own lives and the lives of others without there being a good reason for it? I dont think so. Unfortunately there are occasions when there is no alternative. And to have a war without innocent lives being lost is an impossibility. But now, surely the end justifies the means. It has been 12 years since the end of the Gulf war and yet Saddam's regime still stands. The lives of Iraqi nationals has deteriorated beyond acceptablility. Ok many argue that this is as a result of the heavy UN sanctions imposed after the Gulf war, but the reality is that Saddam has recieved enough money to cater for the health of his people, yet has neglected them and opted to bolster his illegal weapons program. For sure he has been working on manufacturing weapons of mass destruction. The weapons inspectors have never disputed this fact. He has been given 12 years so far to disclose all his illegal armaments yet has failed to do so. How long should he get to comply? It stinks of delaying tactics...It is not right...

The problem we have in our society is that we tend to take our freedom for granted. How many times throughout history have we had to stand up for what is right to keep our way of life? Surely everyone deserves to have an opinion and a choice. These are basic human rights...

Also i dont look at it in terms of US/UK aggression. It is the result of human nature that there's something being done. Were we supposed to stand idly by? As citizens of the most prosperous nations on Earth, it is our duty to help make everyone lives as fair and decent as we can. Saddam Hussein has proven his regime has no morality time and time again. Even today as I've followed the breaking news for hours on end, the mindset of this regime is quite clear. The parading of the US pow's is abhorrent enough but to show off the bodies of dead soldiers in the way that they did was absolutely disgusting. A total disregard for not only the Geneva Convention but also human decency...

Sadly we do not live in a world where everyone abides by the codes of international law. Everyone should be united against those that perpetrate the morals that decent ppl live by. To me the only regret is that this war has taken place without UN support. It does undermine the whole meaning of such an organisation, yet it cannot be a reason why this action shouldnt take place. Ultimately I think this war will prove to be just. Many doubters will have their questions answered. I just hope it's not a prolonged war and upmost, I hope that it doesnt end up escalating into something too big to control. I get the feeling that this war will be the defining moment of our future...

Axel 24-03-2003 02:15 AM

alex: that's a good "article" - ur expressing my opinion

mshoward82 24-03-2003 02:30 AM

alexgc- Very well spoken. :)

Ultragames 24-03-2003 02:46 AM

If i missed something in the begining of this post, forgive me. Im not goting to read it all.

My thoughts. I see it all over the news. CNN has been on my livingroom TV since before this started. constantly
Not that I dont care, because i do watch it sometimes, i dont want to be overtaken with the war. 9/11 just about fried my brain, from hearing the same thing over and over and over.

Other than that... Mike did it!

Pony 24-03-2003 03:04 AM

Alexgc very well said. I second that. Just to state my opinion it gose right along with his. just personly.

alexgc 24-03-2003 03:14 AM

cheers guys, i thought i should point out a few facts - as i see them of course...

Actually, in case u havent heard, apparently US forces have discovered a 'huge' chemical weapons facility. I guess this vindicates Bush and Blair if it is true...

edit: apparently not the case now?? supposedly a reporter jumped the gun...

Ultragames 24-03-2003 08:27 AM

News:

Iraq TV shows 5 Americans being interigated.
Iraq TV shows other Americans dead. Shot in the forehead.

Saddam calls Americans the 'evil agression'
Saddam also says:

Evil shall suffer.
Pay for this (American) crime against the humanity
(American) terrorist will be afraid
Enemy (American) troops are weak and we(Iraq) will defeat the,.
(Iraq) troops are blessed and inspired by God and Ghihad.
Long Iraq!

What a bitch! He called us terrorist, week...

:wow: :mad: :banghead:

Saddam :mingun:

drj 24-03-2003 09:43 AM

Wow...a lot of good opinions and great to hear some of them that are well thought out and well spoken (or written).
I guess deep down i agree with what alexgc said and also would just like to chime in with the fact that NONE of us will really know all of what the TRUTH is on either side. It is a shame in any situation where people die, whether it be while working hard in the tallest building in NYC or while being invaded at your home in Iraq.
I do find that basically nothing in history in any country's past has not cast the first stone. Every country has a violent past to get things they wanted. Government's and People are greedy at their most base of reactions. It just so happens that at this point and time the USA is the only "superpower" and we will be judged in every occasion that we take action for whatever reason.
Don't get me wrong here...I in no way support violent resolution to any problem...unless someone hits me first.

watkira 24-03-2003 11:45 AM

My Cousin is serving in the royal engineers and is somewhere in southern Iraq he is only 21 and been in the army for just 10 months.We just hope he comes back soon ,i know war is crap but sometimes it happens it just human nature all i can say is this Bush and Blair must know Saddam is hiding sometime cause there risking thier careers so even if your against this attack remeber that most of the troops are the same ages as most of you and there just doing a job ...u should be proud of your country and wish them luck coz it looks like its going to be a long war......

abra 24-03-2003 12:33 PM

how can you be PROUD of THIS?
sorry, but if a few ppl can start a war like this and bring pain and death in many families something can't be right with a society like this?!?

and bush & co are speaking about geneva convention and stuff like this and they are doing the same terrible things behind closed doors?

the whole war is illegal and bush & co should be punished for starting this war!!

alexgc 24-03-2003 12:50 PM

abra nobody is "proud" of war...Im proud of the bravery of ppl willing to fight for what they believe in and fight for the sancitity of other ppls lives...I dont like war, but i know that sometimes its the only option.

As for this idea of bringing pain and death to families, do u not think saddam is doing enough of that on his own? Would u rather things stayed as they were? Yes it is a fact of war that it costs lives - and nobody is happy about it, but many people accept this as part and parcel of achieveing something greater...

and I have to say this - and i know it may well be contentious - so by all means it can be blanked out...but im getting the impression alot lately that all these anti-war feelings are just anti-Bush feelings. Dont get me wrong, im not saying i support Bush, but it looks like ppl are using the war as a vehicle to attack him...


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