Kurts dragon head tutorial
 

hey all

well I am at it again. I am trying the dragon head tutorial and going to work on this . Last model was tie fighter and it didnt show how to make details so i was lost. I am still very new ..need some help. I converted nurbs to polygons and then it no longer lined up with image plane. I am trying to get it back lined up. Having major issues. Here is the pic so far . The black lines are what i want to delete. i have tried to do it but would not let me.

Any of you know how i could line everything back up ? i know moving vertics but i have moved them the most i can. The ones with black lines if I delete them and combine some how I think I will be on target with teh image plane. If i am wrong or there is a better way please explain.

also this is pretty good for me and C and C is welcome but slow learning process ...also if you see issues with geometry let me know also . i am working on getting it all looking good there also

did you try delete vertex or delete edge commands?

My only thoughts that if these aren't working, is that theres still history on the poly mesh from the nurbs conversion, in which case you need to delete history on them both if they are still both there. Check the outliner to see whats going on, what objects are there etc...


Jay

well i tried to delete vertixs and said i couldnt but if i delete edges they go away but how i go about joining the two edges ? would i just extrude the edges ? or is there another way that is easier ?

also converting from nurbs to poly does it always not line up ?

also i found out when i go ahead and deleted edges in nose and then pick vertices and merge both sides it ends up in wierd criss cross shape ...and doesnt keep the original layout. will try to post
picture tomorrow on what i am talking about .


progress will be slow. my internet is down so i have to use work ...i will have internet in a week ..dang tornado's ..

thanks to all. i have learned alot just being on here and doing my normal goof ups lol

Hey there MMoore,

if you delete edges the vertices will still be there, Maya should then let you select the left over vertices and delete them if you want to. Alternatively ou could delete the unwanted faces then snap align the row of vertices on one side of the gap you've made to the other (one at a time) and merge them. The result is going to be pretty similar either way.

Take it easy

Mat.

okay will try that when i get home. ..thanks for all the help .

well I am on internet. .staying at someone else with internet woohooo ..okay i deleted edges and then merge vertics and this is what happens ..any ideas ?

Dude

Whay you have done has been a little over zealous there.

is there a hole there now or just bad geometry? If its a hole just go to editpoly menu and 'fill hole' then using the split poly tool put the edges you need back in , its very simple.

If there isnt a hole just use the split poly tool to put in the geometry again.

Lastly when using MergeVertices theres a tolerance slider in there depending on how high its numerical value is, will have a greater effect on more than one vertice there- merging more than you need if you have selected too many.

Cheers
Jay

thanks jay. Figured it out with that info ..here is the update. Fixed geometry and then tried to get it more to image plane. Let me know what you all think. I know one area around mouth corners are those okay ?

another shot. .. thanks Mat and Jay. I respect both of your comments and thanks for the help. I am learning from both of you and cant thank you both

curious should i go ahead and convert to sub d or just keep it poly ? just wondering what the norm is ?

i would keep it in polys, cuz i consider sub-d's a pain, but u do what you want

its lookin goof mmoore. The geometry is looking good. Stick to polys

That's starting to look much better, the very tip of the nose could do with a bit of a tweak and you already mentioned the mouth corner.

I agree with the others, stick with poly's for now. It's a good idea to get the hang of one modeling method before tackling another. As for what the norm is, I think it's down to personal preference.

Keep it up,

Mat.

ericmattison81 HAHHAH too funny. thanks on geometry.



happymat27- i dont know how to do the mouth better . Probably cause it has a cut out in the mouth . the nose ,i kept trying it and not working out. I will keep trying to work it out .
will keep you all posted and thanks in advanced for all help from everyone .

will keep it at polys for now

...i consider sub-d's a pain, ...


LOL, why? Back up your theory of why its a pain, because to somebody with perhaps less experience wont be none the wiser at the end of the day, give them the pros and cons...


mmoore5553

Keep it poly for the time being until you have blocked in the main geometry and shaped it as much as you feel you can. You can always switch to subds and go to poly mode (right click over model to show the poly cage) and work on that level or if you are comfy with that go to smooth proxy which is pretty similar but its all poly instead. Otherwise a good job so far, dont be scared to try and do different things in your own way, build it it as Kurt has done but see if you can add to it as well. You may surprise yourself

regards
Jay

thank you jay for comments . I was wondering on pro's and cons. Also I am going to follow it and then add my touch but I am happy so far ...cause no duplicate edges or anything like that and wanted geometry to look good also ... so will post more pics after this weekend.

ran into another problem. i have tried over and over to use split poly tool to make an eye outline. Kurt video shows he can use split poly in middle and i tried it and I can only go to edges ?


first picture is kurts eye

now i try to make it and i can only get to the edges not like his in the middle ... Anyone know what I am doing wrong please let me know ..

Theres a setting in the split poly options that should be able to change your problem..

:beer:

yeah i went into the settings and shut off snap to edge and magnet. Still same issue ...

Hmm it really beats me..

I havent worked much with polys lately so really ive got no clue.

:angery:

no problem ..hopefully i can figure this out . i did find this out ..I was able to do some of it ..but when i do it sometimes the dot is not there but if i end on edge it magically appears so i cant see it ..anyone seen this ? sometimes it happens and sometimes it dont ..i pick split and then go to the middle and split on edge ..sometimes the middle line shows when i click there and sometimes not ..if you dont understand i can try to post pic . But when i hit enter it appears sometimes and sometimes just says end on edge but i cant see the other line so not sure if in correct spot ...

oops forgot pic. i can click there and it shows like first pic but then when i pick another spot and it shows up like bottom pic.if i hit enter it forms and then move vertics . It is hard to do cause it throws me off on where they are ... any ideas ?

Hello MMoore,

I think it's because the poly face is twisted and the new vert that you're adding in the middle of the face will try to find middle ground between the upper and lower edges but will not pull the face into shape until you've hit enter. If you use x-ray you should be able to see what you're doing.

Take it easy,

Mat

okay finally got some progress but ran into a problem ...i wanted to convert to sub-d so i can see how it looks so far and it will not let me do it.

i have looked over and over to see what is wrong. I dont know any other way to get a smooth version to see what dragon looks like so far ...it is in polys ..

here is the error i get in the script editor

select -r polySurface2 ;
deleteInternalValence2Verts |polySurface2|polySurfaceShape5;
polyToSubdiv -ap 0 -ch off -aut on -maxPolyCount 1000 -maxEdgesPerVert 32 |polySurface2|polySurfaceShape5;
// Warning: Nothing is selected. Select objects or components to delete. //
// Error: polyToSubdiv1 (Poly To Subdiv Node): The conversion to a subdivision surface failed.
// One or more duplicated edges were present.
// Repair the duplicate edges by selecting the polygon
// and issuing the following command, then try again:
select .e[378] ;string $v[] = `polyListComponentConversion -fe -tv`;select $v;polySplitVertex;polyMergeVertex -d 0.0 -tx 1; //
// Error: Command polyToSubdiv failed. Open Script Editor for details.


i dont see any duplicated edges or vertics issues... i can post my file so far ..i want to find out where the problem is ..any help appreciated or if anyone knows how to see what you have so far so i know what to pull out or push in let me know ..thanks

Hey there MMoore,

It's starting to look much better, I've highlighted your problem with the red circle, for some reason this edge will not join. To get this view yourself go to custom polygon display and click on the border edges button, set the edge width to what ever is good for you, I have it at 4 (you may need to click on display/polygon components/border edges too, but I'm not sure).

To sort the problem out I would delete the 2 faces that I've shaded green and use the append poly tool to rebuild them, you will be able to convert to sub-d after that.

take it easy,

Mat.

well i finally found it ..had to set it to 5 ..so i take it any edges that are not by holes will be in bold. But if it is on edges it indicates double edge ? and something to be fixed ?

i just deleted both faces and then just picked all the edges and append poly tool and then just deleted the edge and then split poly tool to give it back shape ..Then it went ahead and went to sub-d .

Is that the correct way ?

it took me all of 2 min lol

thanks for your help once again, Mat. there are a few of you that have really kept me on track and taught me things. Thanks to all of you. Also special thanks to kurt for the tutorial. hopefully i will make it threw.

also previous question. How do you all go about seeing a smooth image or see how to pull things up and down to get the proper proportions ?

You could have merged verts too, just delete all history and then applied it. Even quicker

Another reason for failure to Sd can be also due to the fact that the base mesh count is too low: eg: the default is 3200 if Im correct, you may get an error saying base mesh is eg 3500 so therefore increase the conversion count to match this or better still increase it further to say 4000. In this case it wasnt the prob but its something to be aware of, for the future.

Regards
Jay

okay thanks Jay I will keep that in mind.

Hopefully everything will go well today and have more updates

Mat- i think I am doing better on this cause i kept in mind errors and mistakes I had in the tie fighter. hopefully since u have the file you can see that it is better .


Any more C and C is always welcome .

okay this weekend was rough. i have worked all day on getting the eye looking good and this is what i have so far ..also when i smooth it doesnt look like much . i have posted pics of regular poly not smooth. When you smooth does it get better or am i suppose to put in more work ..though I would see more define shape or should i just sick with working out more detail ? i just look at dragon kurt does at this stage he has more detail.

Also if i go to poly and smooth . geometry is alittle messed up ..should i worry about that ? also when i smooth ..how do i go back to normal poly ? i can post file if people want to duplicate other side and take a look at it ...

another pic - maybe can see eye more . also is there another way to post my pics to show better so you call can tell what is going on better ?

here is duplicated

Good work so far. I would however finish that line on his beak. The one that doesnt go all the way to the top because it looks like thats creating a lump on his nose. maybe because its not smooth but it looks like that would create a wierd bump when you do smooth it. other then that, its looking very good. I might have to have you finish my work now hehe

didnt notice it ...oh i have tons of work to finish on this dragon but ran into problems when working with eye and found alot of duplicated edges after I extruded and other issues ..worked out now .. but still lacking all the extra detail like kurt has on his ..

sure i will finish it ... send it on hehe

how much detail are we suppose to have at this point ? am I supopse to work out detail now ?

also when i go to poly>smooth

how do i go back to regular poly mode ?

set your itterations to 0
and it will go back to base mode

click on the dragon and then in your channels box, you'll see your poly smooth history, click on poly smooth and thats were you set your itterations

made some minor updates. put in mouth and then snoat . working on it still . not lined up with referance picture but working on it. fixed some other spots that are bothering me ..C and C is welcome. still unsure about snoat . any help or comments welcome.

some more pics

one more pic

everything is still in poly. i probably convert to sub-d sometime but still working everything out in poly for now .

hopefully you can tell the changes . let me know if good or not