o no im not saying its not good at all, its beautiful code i just hate working with it compared to normal css html, i started with the templates but pretty jkuch stripped it down to just the code and redesigned everything, oscommerce is showing its age but they are bringing out a updated version soon so im gona wait to really get stuck into that. Dont get me wrong php is sweet its just i dont like using it because i like to see things instantly (impatient) I did some forums using Yabb forum, ad thats pretty useful but i would love to be able to afford a liecence for vbullitin but untill start making some prper $ i cant afford luxurys. Later JOsh