Lt Jim Thanks for your comments. 19 pages by the way - 27!! LOL - Not quite. The surfaces are subd right now so its pointless even going anywhere near the soften/harden edges, set normals etc but I'm well aware of those, thanks Also the figure isnt joined together yet either, hence the crease!! one side is an instance so I can get an idea of form straight away whilst I work on the other.... Cheers Jay