heres an update 1) im having problems with the round tool i use it the i save an open the fie later an the round is still there but the two patches now r covin it how /y is this? 2) also how can i attache this back bit to rear thing so it is rounded on the edges - ne suggestion? 3) heres a rim i made - done with out a tut an its not prefect but i am glad wiv the way it came out - just thought id put into practice wat ive learnt so far c&c welcome n all things thx