thanks guys, i like that low poly model eldwick, always been a fan of dini and timm's batman. mirek03 - i first started using maya in at the end of 2003 so about 2 and a quarter years now. This model started out as a single poly face, cut from a cube (not a fan of planes) and via extrusion, the amend to poly tool and the edge loop tool, i got to this stage. It's a method i used in my final year of uni and have grown accustomed to, originally all of my models were box modelled.