Originally posted by marlonjohn loving the upgrades everytime Mr R.... just wondering, which tutorial helped you in a way where you can make this car? ehehe thanks Mr R Hey marlonjohn I'm pretty much doing this - https://www.cg-cars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15 You'll need to register with the website to get at it though. I can't say that one specific tutorial led to success. I think it's a combination of techniques from the Apache tutorial, looking at work by others, Kurts dragon tutorial (believe it or not) and just practicing and getting it wrong a lot. The best advice I can give you is to start really rough and just block in the major features. Try to think ahead and place verts so that they'll help you as you add more detail. Lastly, I make use of curves to keep things smooth. If I'm going to split some polys, I draw a curve with the ep tool and snap to the existing verts. Then the new verts created by the split can be aligned with the curve. See image ... This is just a simple example but hopefully explains it. I've gone away from subds because I can't get the edges as tight as I'd like. Instead I use really close edge loops and a mesh smooth. HTH MrR