Thanks guys. some lounge chairs are on thier way I have started work on the right side since the model is not symetrical, but I have switched the project to Maya 7.0 because I really was'nt liking 8.5 at all , anyone else hate the fact they have split the modeling set in half and seperated polys and surfaces? i think this sucks with my workflow and i hate too that everthing has been moved around. ok had my little moan heres an update....