Hey Guys thanks Mirek: thank you Alphaflyte: magic? you are too kind, I am a worm...many thanks for your constructive crit, I appreciate it. I'll post up a side view later, the profile of this guy is verging on amphibious so you'll then see where this is heading, its not going to be a run of the mill character, more alien. I should have posted the back of the head too as the back of the neck will be making way for some piercings! Nice Acid: Its not a render, its a screen shot from Zbrush 3, which happens to have realtime shadows these days Cheers Jay