that what my next question was going to be lol the tail and mouth all goto one point because its a cylinder, i have a book its the learning autodesk maya 8 foundation book ive read through it and done some of the projects but there all mainly extruding faces ive done the frank tutorial and again its extruding faces from a polygon cube, i was wondering how i would go around moddeling the mouth and tail on a cylinder? if you can recomend any video tutorials that would be great help thanks jtg