Mayaniac - Yeah as i was working on this, in the end i didnt really care since you woudnt be seeing this as he'll have cloths on. Also with the edge loops, i was just generally ignoring it for this challenge(dont know why), i just had more a lot of fun mucking around using the split poly tool anywhere and everyone :p Cheers Appriciate the comment also regarding the texture Yeah some place's its abit dodgy but ill get them all fixed for the final still render. As for the model, im just making it to be a solid as the final will just be a render though later on in the future im going to re-work this guy and fix everything such as all the bad stuff about it If you kinda get that. Mirek - Haha, maybe in a couple of years time ill work on organics again, as i really hate it. Guess im on the same boat as you. Louis - Dont get how NZ are like a different country. We share the same flag and ocean, where pretty close we could be a new state. :p Cheers guys M