hammer.horror: I've turned this into a "who's got the crappest computer" thing haven't I....lol, sorry to all for doing that! I didn't mean mentalray,the sun and sky was what I meant, you're right about the tweaking, I've been tweaking myself silly this past week, (sounds a bit suspect, no witty combacks on that one pls...) Thanks for the comments, it is coming along, have taken Tweetytunes thoughts on the sun direction onboard and am rendering a shot with the sun pointing at the front of the building, it's looking good so far, will post it when it's finished.