glad it made sense mate Did you group the joint root and then group it, cos when I done that it didn't work. I selected the pelvis joint(or whatever was highest in the heirachy) and grouped it to itself (ctrl+g or edit>group). I'll have a look when i get home as to why i did it (cant remember off the top of my head) but its was probably to add another zero transformed node for parenting the other animation controls. will have a look lter on