here are some screen shots Maya software - just black and really quick -- 0:001 min Maya hardware - doesn't render well because of lots of quadratic fall off and ray trace shadows.. but does render Mental ray - renders as expected. I obviously have a lot of work to do on this scene, but at least I can now continue. But why isn't it rendering in Maya? btw davarave -- 4,5,6, and 7 all work fine