yep dave that is a good method...I forget about that. 3d...I would do the disc like dave has shown....then do the spokes to fit...work backwards..that may help. I must admit when I saw Rick do this with a trolley wheel it reminded me we do tend to model in a 'forward' motion...I have actually worked in reverse a few times now...and it worke well...and not just for holes either. Thanks dave...I kick myself in the nuts now...I should remember that one by now!! LOL

cheers bullet