modelling the circle was a pain in the ass - i made a cylinder (poly) added about 5 caps, and delted the inner faces. and of course all the faces on the inside get deleted so it loks like a tire...so i extruded the edges. then i had to delete some space for the diamonds. in doing that, it wasnt comforming to their shape, so i manually put some curvature into the ends by manipulating the vertices. heh - newby style modelling rox.