thanks for the replies guys... A wire? well its really really messy right now, on this truck it was hard to get the curves that I wanted with out tri's. so when you convert to Subd's it looks messy. but, when you convert back to polys at a level of 1 or 2 instead of 0 (to render smooth with GI_Joe) then it cleans it up a bit. THanks, B