I have no idea Just reinstalled windows about 3 months ago and I installed maya 7 - 8.5 and 2008 - For the most part I use 2008, but model in 8.5 as I have a lot of good tools for 8.5. So most of the work the last few months have been in 2008 - or première (lots of editing work lately) so I don`t know how long the problem has been there. Area has been no help - just told me to update. My friend has told me that there was an update for 8.5 (ser pack 1 or something) - but can`t find a place to download and try that so he`s bringing it over 2mo. - I`m hoping it will sort it out. If not just have to lose the tools and stick to 2008 - man I`m pissed that my auto update argument ran out with 2008 ext2.