thanks. your a good guy !.. yeah I was like tucking under a cuple of verts to get a real good edge till I figered out that a nother edge real close dose just as good. just like you have.. I think its a good way. it helps keep in polys, and keep the count low. if I was in subD's just for smothing it would kill my CPU. would be going to watch a movie to kill time, every time I wanted it..