im at the uni cafe at the moment, studying the students in reference for the upper torso area of my model, I must say there are some fine pert examples here to draw upon (I wish !!) and let the imagination run wild.

'keep an eye on me!' wadda yu mean?!

this is the first time i have used sub-ds in any 'real' sense, I made a monster once from the alias maya 6 foundation book once, i dont know if that counts I like them but cdbram has brought some interesting pionts to the table. I like sub-ds, seem the best of both worlds IF one is fully ready to model and not have to revert or back track too much later?? seem cool to me though.

ctbram, looking at your post again, I didnt understand what you meant about limitations in the assembly stage. Seems clearer this morning, you are saying consider the torso in the final design because once it is made it is too (if not impossible) to change or refine later?