Thanks guys. " looking just like him...great job...i wish i could organic model like that ". Just pick a subject you like gather as much visual reference as you can get try to get stuff with similar focal lengths If you have the money make sure to have two monitors so you have your refernce next to your workspace and last don't make the mistakes i usually make and that is trying to do all of it in one hour, just start around the eyes work through the nose the mouth then start blocking in the rest, matching up your sourceimages and not like i have a neck for doing it and that's that i think i know how some feature looks but when i compare it at last with my visual reference it doesn't match(the memory is a tricky thing and things aren't always as you remember I also use a mirrored smooth proxy so i can preview the smooth mesh and when everything is done i tweak stuff with the artisan brush. Everytime i think i have made the most awesome model ever i go to CGtalk for a while go back to my model and will tweak some more (keeps a man humble and one can only learn from a humble position LOL)