ello, changed the helmet, think I will stick with this as the final model. Any suggestions tho?? It might not exactly be exactly like the pic above But I haven't got the skills to get it exactly right. I am going to change the reflection map at some point, it just seems a bit 'off' to me. I did save the pic as a tga from maya, but when I loaded it into photoshop the bakground had disappeared!!! Anyway, I am onto a sword now. Tried it in nurbs and polys - not very good but will try a combination of polys/subds - havent used subds a lot at all, lets hope I can learn quickly cheers rich