well there are two ways of doing it... atleast the way i do.. I use the bevel tool, and make tons of clean up... where it makes those unwanted edges, and verticies? yeah, i know it sucks, and it is very time consuming, or you can do a soften harden edge after you convert to Subd's. For this one I just used the bevel took before I converted to Sub d's so that it would keep the mesh count small in Subd's. THakns, Brian unfortunatly...there is no major secrect... just lots of time