Originally posted by tecone thanks, that does help me with making a general outline for it, now do you do it in nurbs or polygons or what? Thanks again In my opinion i would do everything in polygons, and if they needed to be abit smooth around the edges just bevel them. Though i would only use nurbs if i needed stuff like pens/vases etc... Originally posted by jsprogg ok if you select an object it's just that object,to select the group that object is in hit the up arrow key . hey jsprogg, when did you know how to do that? i didn't even know until now when you said it :S i always had to open the outline and then find the group which sometimes took ages lol ... thanks again