Man, that's been quite a long time ago... over 2 years, I think. If I remember correctly, I had created a torso without reference from a sphere, and then later on, I used that same torso to refine it into a more realistic looking one using reference material. actually... *digs through archives...* Yeah, I still got all those guys. Here's one of the benefits of saving in stages. You can do a semi-step-by-step. It doesn't really show how I got to the first torso from a sphere, but it's mostly just a matter of shaping the hulls and tweaking CVs. Hope it helps!