i tryed to get rid of those peskey triagles but i found that i was just moving them around ... I am going to have to stare at it for a while ...i did do a little more work any way tho ... she is getting closer to the look still faily low on the poly count (not that i have counted them) ... any anatomists/critics out there with the time, I would apreciate any tips/insights you might have ... Here are a couple of snaps of the state of play