hi gster123 nice to see you around here, you always helpful, i remember, you replied to my few question in past time yes I tried, basically they are mostly the same , but the visor one cant be rendered with mental-ray at least i convert them to polygon . the different are -dynamics one can be rendered with mental-ray -they are particle and emitters -different shaders can be easily applied pre-made (visor) -cant be rendered need convert -they are poly objects, -shader ramp easily to apply, basicly the both of the way are seem to be the same but few things different, what I am looking for sort of explosion effect , comes out from ground and goes up and the the heat and temperature changes by colour (black/red/yellow) I got the exact the same effect now, but how can I animate this fire ? that is the next question hoop you guys can help me, thanks again