Yeah, I'm going with that way at the moment Coldwave, I'll get all the weighting done so it moves nicely, it's easy enough to grab what Ik's you need to test with from the outliner anyway, then get all the controls done, grouped etc. Painting weights is going to take a while to get used to and as I'm in the right frame of mind to learn it I may as well concentrate on that. Already got the back end working pretty good, and the shoulder well on it's way, so hopefully it won't take too long before I can have him walking about and picking a fight with Chirone's eyeball guy!....lol!