well I thought I understood this, but I must be doing something wrong cos I can't get it to work. Basically, I have an IKRP Solver connected to an arm skeleton. I have then created a hand manipulator, which is a nurbs circle snapped to the wrist and has been parent constrained to the IK handle and orient constrained wrist joint. I also have a locator which keeps the elbow pointing in the right direction. As Vladimirjp suggested I have grouped the IK to itself and placed the pivot of the new group at the effector (which seems to be at the wrist). However, when I move the Ik handle using the hand manipulator, the new group does not move with the rest of the hand, so I can't zero it out to reset the hand to bind pose. Does that make sense? Probably not. Any help would be much appreciated.