hey ransid, thanks for the comment about that... i tried adding another light source and that but didnt really like that outlook of that. i just relised what was casuing it, for some reason my imagebasedlighting was automaticly browsed to the wrong file for some unknown reason but ived done a couple of renders right now and this is the result in what i got, i reckon it is better than all my others soo far... ived also got that soft fuzzy plane render happening abit .. any crits about this one on how i can make it better? cheers, marlon