Thanks I did a relvolve then I sorta tweaked it then converted it to poly then just extruded arms and legs then wasted time by moving vertexes but well I could psuehd average verticals and shaved 1 hour from it though I made him much more movable now I earased most of the objects history and remmbered I hid the nurb msh that was atached to the model so that is fixed ... I have him textured but getting spots correctly on him is well hard.... Ya he is partick I just though he'd be a nice first made rigged charcter ,he needs more work and I need to get aorund to moving IK handles better..