a quick update. Learned how to use bevel a little. The bevel in Maya is so much better than lightwaves its unbelievable... Well heres a wire and a perspective view shaded. Non rendered. I think the beveling really helps file down some of those harsh angles. Yeah, i try and at least read every post too... but im member to over 10-15 different messege boards... so it gets to be really hard at times. So i tend to concentrate on a few boards a day. ... almost forgot the image.