believe it or not thats an old mudbox sculpt i did for a next gen game character, like a year ago, but like a fool, i stoped practicing in mudbox, i whish i hadn't now, i too prisviously used to work the way you mentioned, ny subdividing it a couple times, but after watching a dvd, i thought i was doing it wrong, now that i know it's o,k to work like that i'm going back to that technique, thanks for the help, and clearing up my misconceptions