well nothing solved the problem, i tried to on 2 computers with 8.5 and it crashs, even reinstalled a few times. also all my other projects are getting these errors. i really dont get it. so i went ahead and got 2008 and it works without errors, and overall looks like a patched up 8.5 so i'm never going back to 8.5 again.

its either 7 or 2008 for me. this one i'll just never figure out.