Thank you David you are very kind. I hope Kevin you have a more gentle interpretation of your anacronym LMFAO than the normal internet one, remember you are conversing with a lady here <grin>. But I still have no answer to how Mike is getting both a front and rear face to his ear after extrusion. Could someone please help me here, as I want to get on with the CPS Tutorial. A happy and much more cheerful Femina.