Hi sunny10471, Thanks for you words. As for the laces, the bottom 'holes' are just normal mapped and the upper D shaped rings were modeled seperately. Then for the upper section of laces I drew a curve on surface to match the position of the rings and extruded along the curve and adjusted the CV to get the shape. Convert to poly, keeping fairly low as I won't be seen up close. Then they got partly covered up but the leg exo-skeletal structure, but hey, I got a nice boot underneath I can use for other characters. Gio