Arran- I am no better then you so please forgive my, seeming as if I know it all. Did not mean to come off like that, and me saying calm down, I take it back ok, can we move on from here and focus on what information that the original thread person requested. No need to gang up on me. I had an opinion and I gave it, I got attack by you friend and I responded. I got insulted to hear that drawing is considered second hand now and I think it's wrong, but again it's my opinion only can you respect that I respect yours, by saying that I may have said somethings that came off the wrong way, my apologies. Savnac