thanks for the help I've looked at the nonrendered particles and they look fine when I start at 1. But I noticed when I start it at frame 120 they start creating themselves somewhere down the line randomly and looked similar to the render I posted. so since I'm rendering frames 120 to 300 instead of 1 to 300, I'm assuming my renderer is looking at the particles then instead of starting from 1. if that's the case, I guess my only solution is to render from 1 to 300.