WOW!! Thats amazing GecT!! This is so much more than I expected!! THANKS! Now I understood that the deformer is the way to go. and about the holes, so if i am not having these pointy things coming inwards but just holes going thru like the attached picture, (actually you have done it much into much harder shape) um,, i think i can work it out ! i do your tutorial first then i will try the desired shape!! NextDesign san! (ho, you know japanese??), thanks i think i am not up to that stage yet so i will try it when im up to it!! thanks guys let me work hard on it cheers~~ nmasatake