Thanks a lot kurt for explaining that! IF the arm took you 2 and a half hours it must of taken you a long time to model the rest! Its nice to know the times (IMO) just because I can respect the ammount of time put into it.. and things like that. I will definately be buying your CD tutorial as soon as it comes out.. I MUST watch that.. as I feel after i watch it a few times I will have a lot better grasp on modelling.. along with knowing new technqiues. Then its just practice practice practice! Anyways thanks for answering my Q's.. ttyl.