@stwert: thanks @bullet1968: no LOTR fan?shame on you LOL, I don't know Feist and yes Organic modeling eludes me at times as well. @Dango77:Thanks man @Jay: I know ....I was only joking about the edgeloops and I agree that establishing solid foundations are a must( that's why I tend to build my start meshes in Maya..proper edgeflow and so on ) Well I haven't been able to do much, because we have had a slight heatwave hitting this normally rain invested little country, have made a rough body and am now working on the hands and feet , once I have something solid I will post an image Thanks for all the replies guys