a 130 cm kitchen??? wouldn't fit the cat in it i wasn't thinking of it in terms of reality but yea, 130 ft would be a dance floor. (reality in cyberland..??? now things are getting strange) just interested because we were talking about focal lengths an lately i have been trying to decide how size effects the scene if at all and your scene does scene size matter much in mental ray.., i know it does for ray tracing (i think it does).., but does if matter much for FG or GI.., i have some tuts here so im not looking for a big answer.., yes or no is fine i got a bit of a handle on the maya renderer.., the taj render for shadows was a bit of a dig into the parameters as the scene is sort of large.., filter and bias. i really want to get on top of the spherical environ and HDRI.., and displacement. (as he drifts off into la la land???) (i suddenly feel off a bit?? i better eat something.., weird how these things can hit suddenly??) take care