yup your right, I could have simply used particles and a volume curve field, or fluids and used a vol curve, or a vortex, or even got some stock footage and comped it, but thats not the point.

I also dont have trapcode which pretty much rules it out completly.

Thing is I'm not using any dynamics, its all scripted to have ubercontrol over everything, so no silly particles escaping and not doing what I want.

Ive added some ground particles to the mix.