hey - thanks everyone. lealar - thanks mate - don't think i'll do a background -just wanted a frog on a white plane - matrix style. cheers jay - yeah, you're right, getting shinyness is tough! - the spec definitely needs more work - i'll give it a tweak. also, he already has sss on him - their skin seems to be pretty opaque on top, though i'm no expert on frogs.... or sss for that matter! thanks again everyone!