Face modeling

# 1 10-01-2014 , 01:30 PM

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Hi, I've seen a thread here for correct topology for head modeling, https://simplymaya.com/forum/showthre...t=24483&page=5

but when modeling a head/face is there a fast way to do it:
Half a sphere then delete the face and then add in extra geomotry....

or do you build with polygon tool piece by piece?

Thanks
Graham

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# 2 10-01-2014 , 04:52 PM

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There is no real "quick" way of doing it. The more comfortable you are with a technique, the faster you can go. Most people start with a cube, then subdivide it and cut in loops when necessary. Using a sphere is a bad idea as you get the poles (triangles at the top).

Look up head box modeling on Google, and you'll find a lot of information.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

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# 3 10-01-2014 , 05:50 PM

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I had a lot of trouble with the box method. I ended up using daveraves method of starting with the eyes and extruding edges....I really dont know why but it worked for me after MANY attempts at the box method, horses for courses I suppose. I think Jay hand drew a topo face in here somewhere...good for learning and ref. user added image

bullet1968

"A Darkness at Sethanon", a book I aspire to model some of the charcters and scenes

Last edited by bullet1968; 10-01-2014 at 05:53 PM.

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# 4 10-01-2014 , 09:54 PM

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I too prefer the strip method. I start with the loop strips for the lips/mouth and eyes, then build the nose from a strip along the profile mid line, and then fill in the spaces in between to form the front facial mask.

Next fill out the basic skull and neck.

and then delete a group of poly's where the ear attaches and model the ear and attach it to the opening. Since I hate modeling ears I have one I pre-modeled and I usually just drop that one in and then use a lattice deformer to match up with my reference.

However, sculpting now seems to be the new hotness for organic modeling, unfortunately I suck at sculpting and most everything I try to sculpt just comes out looking like some form of mutant potato.

It's okay though as I prefer focusing on hard surface modeling; although that too is also quickly becoming dominated by sculpting tools like zbrush.

For sculpting the workflow seems to be make a simple base mesh with proper topology in Maya (or fill in your poly modeling app here) and the send it over to zbrush subdivide to somewhere in the rough neighborhood of a bazillion polygons (give or take) and then sculpt away (but don't turn it into a mutated potato!).

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 10-01-2014 at 10:06 PM.

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# 5 10-01-2014 , 11:12 PM

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I disagree with Zbrush taking over hard surface modelling. There are a lot of cool tools in Zbrush and I have seen some amazing work done and in tutorials. However, the mere act of inserting a bevel for instance....in Zbrush is utter balderdash. Using the clip tools is a pain in the coight, then having to either Trim Dynamic etc etc ad nauseum. Unless I missed something there is also no way to manipulate verts, edges etc etc the way you can in a traditional CAD program?? Zbrush is still an organic based program as far as I am concerned.

If you are a GOD with it and know all of its 1 squintillion tools, quirks, brushes, etc etc ad nauseum you might get close. I dont believe (I will stand corrected if proven otherwise) that you can get mechanical detail like you can in a true CAD. Otherwise every engineer on the planet would be using it...and they dont.

Cheers bullet

bullet1968

"A Darkness at Sethanon", a book I aspire to model some of the charcters and scenes

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# 6 11-01-2014 , 12:15 AM

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I find that it's way too easy to add too many loops into the model when using the extrusion method.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

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# 7 11-01-2014 , 12:53 AM

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thanks, saw a few tutorials since and obviously it is a slow process,

But the subdivided cube worked pretty well, as does the starting with an eye loop etc.

Id definatley like to be jumping in and out of ZBrush/Mudbox, but one step at a time..

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# 8 11-01-2014 , 12:22 PM

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You only need to create a very basic model Charles....very basic. Zbrush and Dynamesh will do the work, then GoZ brother user added image

bullet1968

"A Darkness at Sethanon", a book I aspire to model some of the charcters and scenes

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# 9 14-01-2014 , 10:52 AM

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For face modelling its good to find a way to do it that you feel comfortable with, you usually start (unless u'r going to start off from a cube, but most people dont start from a cube or sphere) filling the main shapes out from the face you've got and getting a proper topology. I usually start to create the eye , very low poly until the few polygons that i have are properly layed out (lining up with the reference pictures). then i create the topology for the mouth also very low poly, same with the nose. After that I connect the nose geometry with the eye and the nose geometry, and try to get the basic topology right, then I add more polygons as i move on.

there are tons of video tutorials on youtube you can watch, thats how i learned user added image

my advise is to search youtube to find a technique to lay your polygons out properly, and also search "topology" on google to see which important loops that you want to include

20 year old guy from Sweden

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# 10 14-01-2014 , 11:59 AM

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I always use the strip method (starting with the mouth then noise then eyes) and it works well with good ref. box model i find you spend alot of time fighting to lose the shape of the box. I never have and never will try and make one from sphere. Although i do tend to place 3 in the scene to build around (eyes and back of head).
I have been making heads so long I can pop one out in a few hours now - minus the ear and hair. I must stress the ref part again - trying to fudge it will slow you right done as you'll keep looking at it and thinking that dont look right. I know some people who spent time getting a good head togeather and then just tweak it for then they want a different head. So there are ways of doing heads quickly but it takes some work to get there.

Good luck but most of all have fun with it.

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# 11 17-01-2014 , 12:40 AM

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Http://youtu.be/ac4qV2uIF3Q

Found this video which may help u out with this. Very spead up but still very good to watch.

Good luck.

Last edited by tweetytunes; 17-01-2014 at 12:56 AM.

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# 12 17-01-2014 , 07:46 AM

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Http://youtu.be/ac4qV2uIF3Q

Found this video which may help u out with this. Very spead up but still very good to watch.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by tweetytunes

This video is sick. Do you understand all the steps he's going through to get the right topology? i've tried and failed user added image

20 year old guy from Sweden

Big Bob Marley fan
Love skateboarding
Maya, Mudbox and Photoshop user

Full name: Marcus Ralman

https://www.facebook.com/MarcusRalman3D

^ My facebook page ^

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# 13 17-01-2014 , 08:41 AM

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Yer i can follow what he is doing and its clear he skips bits - but its not the way i would work. Having seperate ears is a very different concept.

But it seems a sphere is a good way to start a hard

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# 14 17-01-2014 , 02:38 PM

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Poly by poly modelling is fine....but.....for me I prefer box modelling, purely based on three facts. Firstly because its how I learned to do it, secondly I prefer it to poly by poly and thirdly and this is the important bit...you get to check form and volume from the absolute beginning of the model, I find with the strip method you are building it up as you go.....

As for ears, easy....you can build a complex one from 8 polys, I did this for the sites Chef Ramsay Tute. Its a very fast approach.

As mentioned you can use Zbrush from a dynamesh and then go down the retopo route, but use something like 3d coat to it as its faster. Zremesher will get it to a point but it doesnt quite align the geo properly for a 'default' head.

Theres no real quick way to do a proper head model unless its cartoonish. But if you do decide to do a head from references be prepared for every possible form of crit...heads are difficult to do and its always always the last 10% that make the difference that will make or break it...

Above all just enjoy it and build up your skills and observations.....and get outside crit off of forums, you'll improve quicker....

Jay

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# 15 17-01-2014 , 05:32 PM

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Hey Jay, exactly which section of the Chef Ramsey tut is the ear in? I want to eventually get the whole thing but for now I'd like to learn your technique for the ear only. Thanks...

Sampson

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