Introduction to Maya - Modeling Fundamentals Vol 1
This course will look at the fundamentals of modeling in Maya with an emphasis on creating good topology. We'll look at what makes a good model in Maya and why objects are modeled in the way they are.
# 16 31-03-2012 , 05:57 PM
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Agreed ctbram. I know people with a degree or two who are pulling palettes or calling for price checks on potatoes because the jobs are either gone or non-paying, meanwhile they have student loans and cost of living expenses to deal with, they've just started out and they're f*cked.

oh totally, but this isnt anything new, this is the world over completely. Thats not gonna change in our lifetime.

I recall we had a scheme here years back (I think it ended around the mid 80's) called the YTS (Youth Training Scheme) where the school leaver took an apprenticeship in his chosen field and was paid a low wage until he had fulfilled his 'time' then he or she was actually guaranteed a job after in that field, then came more money and so on.

Its not just the really good interns that can be out of work at any given time, seasoned pros in VFX, good ones at that can be sidelined just as quickly just to save money for companies. Cases of experience tell me that experienced good guys who do get the job done can actually be turfed out on the street because they cost more money, and their place is taken by two Juniors instead, twice the work half or less than half the wage, but less is the quality of work that gets shat out of the door. What happens then? The experienced guy gets a call, can you come back and clear up our problem, its such a vicious circle, f*** ups like this are common place in this industry. Its such bullshit.

You really have to make your mark in order to survive. It is hard regardless of experiences. We all get shafted sooner or later.

Whats that saying? 'Its tough getting to the top, but its even harder to stay there'


J

# 17 31-03-2012 , 07:32 PM
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The thin red line
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To often I have seen the wrong people in the wrong jobs most often managers who have done all the courses but still cannot manage...............dave




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# 18 31-03-2012 , 07:59 PM
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LOl yeah thats sound familiar dave LOL

J

# 19 01-04-2012 , 11:36 AM
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I keep reading these stories and experiences around the forums in the last couple of years and the impression I get, things only got worse, not better. hmm... I thought the best always stays in.

# 20 01-04-2012 , 04:49 PM
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I thought the best always stays in.

You'd think so, eh? It depends on a studio, but in most cases they don't care, or at least don't show it. The bottom line is always money. If you're good and have some self-respect you expect an adequate (and reasonable) pay for you're work and sadly for most producers that just equals higher expenses. So often-time they will replace the good people with the cheap people or they will keep the good people at the entry-level pay (no raises). It's sad if you know that the companies are making more and more money from year to year but paying less and less for the work.

Also, as others mentioned a lot of time the people in charge have no clue about the work. Often-times the supervisors are not the best artist, just the best sweet-takers, and line producers have no clue about the workflow (e.g. "..I don't care! Just do the animation first, that's priority, we will model the characters later").

Having said that, you can still find honourable and fair bosses... just not too many.

# 21 01-04-2012 , 05:05 PM
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You'd think so, eh? It depends on a studio, but in most cases they don't care, or at least don't show it. The bottom line is always money. If you're good and have some self-respect you expect an adequate (and reasonable) pay for you're work and sadly for most producers that just equals higher expenses. So often-time they will replace the good people with the cheap people or they will keep the good people at the entry-level pay (no raises). It's sad if you know that the companies are making more and more money from year to year but paying less and less for the work.

Also, as others mentioned a lot of time the people in charge have no clue about the work. Often-times the supervisors are not the best artist, just the best sweet-takers, and line producers have no clue about the workflow (e.g. "..I don't care! Just do the animation first, that's priority, we will model the characters later").

Having said that, you can still find honourable and fair bosses... just not too many.


Every bloody word is damn right!!

Similar to my post too prior.....

Jay

# 22 01-04-2012 , 05:15 PM
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Just do the animation first, that's priority, we will model the characters later.

Ha... made me laugh. In a sad sort of way. I still believe there are good and honest companies that respect talent and hard work, maybe more in the biomedical industry? I don't know, maybe not. I have a hunch that the ones that cater to big pharma are the ones to avoid.

Anyway, do you think this business model is related in any way to the studios that keep closing?

# 23 01-04-2012 , 05:57 PM
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This model will eventually crash. It's simple economics, the only reason people are accepting these unpaid jobs and the new pay for jobs is because they believe it will get them a paying job in the end. Once they realized they have been screwed, they will have learned a lesson, and others will catch on when they see talented people asking if you want to super size your french fry order! Eventually people will seek other professions creating a need and studios will have to open their wallets again to get people and the pendulum will swing back the other way.

Unfortunately, it always seems to take being boned, long hard and deep, for most to realize that business people do not do anything with the intent of increasing the standard of living of employees and providing any work, especially work that generates a profit for someone else for no pay is, in the long run, self-destructive.


"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 01-04-2012 at 06:00 PM.
# 24 01-04-2012 , 06:19 PM
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I have and still am considering becoming a Plasterer believe it or not....alot of money to be made as its a trade and also self employed....thats what and how the industry has made me feel over the last 3 years. The problem is I love the work that I do.

Also a quick story to show what companies are actually like. I was unemployed for a time and was looking at games companies, the downside was I had to do it through registered agencies. Anyway one particular job was for a Character Artist at Sony in London. So I spoke to the agent and he asked how much experience I had in games, I said none but I've done modelling for VFX and have alot of experience and so on building Digital Double and vehicles etc. He said it may be a problem but he'll talk to the guys at Sony anyway because of my experiences anyway and he'll get back to me. Anyway later on he called me back ans said they take me on board for 15k a year ( I can earn nearly 4 - 5times that) because I had no games exp regardless of the fact of my other experience. I of course turned it down because I would end up spending probably a 3rd of that on train fares to London. He then said that they (sony) can get a college grad for 15k no prob and teach them. I thought it was a frickin insult generally because again its quantity (cash wise) over quality...bunch of cheap skates if you ask me.....so something in the same vain for you....I think its also chances companies feel they are taking with skilled guys as they can be deemed to be set in their ways as opposed to a junior that they can mould and bend to their will

Jay

# 25 01-04-2012 , 06:30 PM
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You see and that is one of my arguments.

They want a specific level of skill and experience! That skill and experience costs YOU money! My degrees alone have cost me nearly three quarters of a million dollars and add 25 years of experience on to that and it's not just money! You use your time, your limited number of brain cells, your energy and you can't get any of this back. Anyone telling you it's in your interest to give that away for free is just trying to **** you over.

But they will often have such an unrealistic list of required and desired qualifications that no one could meet them all and if they did they'd name whatever rate they wanted!

But then they pick the one qualification you do not meet and use it to justify paying you fast food employee wages and they make it sound like they can go to the local grade school and hire someone for $2 and hour and "train" them.

I say to them - Go for it dick weasels! Please call me and tell me how that works out for you!

Watch this....

2011/03 Mike Monteiro | F*ck You. Pay Me. on Vimeo


"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 01-04-2012 at 07:31 PM.
# 26 01-04-2012 , 09:27 PM
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Not sure where is the best place to post this but let me know if any of you guys are interested. I am packing up and leaving my job guys in 2 months time and they are in need of a replacement. 15,000 Dirham a month which works out at about 2,500 gbp. I am going to try and get them to bump this up to 20 as I think they really need to pay at least this in order to get someone decent out here. It is in the UAE and the pay is pretty awful considering how isolated you are.
That said you get a shit load of time to learn what ever you want plus you can use it to do your own stuff as well as freelance work on the side if you keep it on the down low. Days are pretty good as well as you start at 7 and finish at 2 plus you can do 7-9 in the gym or swim should you wish. It has been awesome for me as I have been able to improve a lot and leave with a everything in place to hopefully enable myself and our team to start a studio and get out of the shitty game some of these morons are playing. Sorry if this is in the totally wrong place guys, I don't want to hi jack this thread but this is a paying job, considering how little work I actually have to do it is a pretty sweet deal and may be exactly what someone here could really benefit from.
flip me a email with reel or cv details etc if you are interested.

leondannylabyk@hotmail.com

# 27 02-04-2012 , 09:09 PM
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Watch this....

Thanks for sharing Rick, that was... inspiring.


Here's a good one too:

Digital Grunt - YouTube

# 28 05-04-2012 , 11:42 AM
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Romania's full of these "Pay me to work for me" jobs. Unless you know someone who knows someone who knows someone...

I may be working for someone for peanuts (well, small cash at the moment and I had to invest in something that needed my immediate attention), but at least I don't have to work for free AND pay to work too. Even better, aside from having a job fixing computers and researching computer parts marketing, I will soon take up architecture designing. Working on a house model for now, to get used to stuff I'll have to do in this.
And my boss is in Australia. Figures that if we Romanians don't go abroad, we work from home for other countries.

# 29 05-04-2012 , 10:14 PM
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working for free is a stupid thing to do and to offer, all that bullshit about liking the work and show dedication is really starting to annoy me.
I've done internships and with all of those they plainly said if you really work hard like the rest you"ll get paid like the rest if you muck about like most interns do, we will show you the broom and the coffeemachine and don't pay anything.
I think that if you asked senior level and higher to work for free because of the love and passion for their job they would just laugh at you.
Just because it's common practice doesn't make it right in my book, if there is a student in which you are willing to put faith just pay him accordingly to that faith especially since students in general aren't the richest people around.....


And people who ask you to give them money so you can work for them should be shot at sight...these are dangerous people...

# 30 05-04-2012 , 10:32 PM
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Pay your dues. If you want to cough up money for a internship I am going to simply refer to it as tutoring or school. Most of my practical knowledge comes from internships or working for free. I worked months on Battlestar for several summer seasons and never saw a dime. My biggest networking job came from working on Drag Me To Hell for free. That was four months of 16 hour days with 6 day weeks because the SAG strike was looming. My payment at the end was Sam Raimi stopping work and personally thanking me in front of the crew. Memories like that are worth 100k to me. In my 27 yr old life I have worked easily over a year for free. But I can go toe to toe with any camera guy on set and I know that is the reason why. As for 3d I have paid easily thousands of dollars for online training. At the end of the day if you are dissatisfied you need to look in the mirror and ask "what do you really want?" then do it...

Obviously this is circumstantial and I don't have a family of my own or debt but if you hold numerous responsibilities you need to own up to the fact that you can't be a selfish workaholic like myself. But when you choose a family and children the costs skyrocket and your freetime shrinks. I have put work over most things in my life. I have left my home, my country, and lost a 4 1/2 year relationship all because of work. I dont regret one day and am thankful to now work with the people that I do!


Last edited by Chavfister; 05-04-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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