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14-01-2005, 04:08 PM   #1
AlanA
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Polygons vs. Nurbs
Can someone briefly explain why nurbs get turned into polygons in the Cartoon Dog video tutorial. It seem like nurbs are a quick way to create an object and that polygons require more time.

Are polygons to only method that will allow fine or subtle detail of a model?


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14-01-2005, 07:14 PM   #2
mhcannon
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Can't say for certain but here are some possibly reason. Since nurbs are made of surfaces butted to gether (hence the term patch modelling) they look great can be an nightmare to animate. Converting to poly or subdiv allows a single shell i.e. on continous surface, which makes animating much easier. Polys are also the most common format for most game engines. As for detail, with work all three geometry types can have high levels of detal.
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Last edited by mhcannon; 16-01-2005 at 02:57 PM.
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14-01-2005, 07:28 PM   #3
AlanA
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more Nurbs requests
Can you please tell me where I can find some renderings or images of shaded wireframe nurbs models. I would like to see how complicated or detailed a nurbs model can be in comparison to a poly model.

Thanks,
AlanA

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Originally posted by mhcannon
Can't say for certain but here are some possibly reason. Since nurbs are made of surfaces butted to gether (hence the term patch modelling) the look great can be an nightmare to animate. Convert to poly or subdiv allows a single shell i.e. on continous surface, which makes animating much easier. Polys are also the most common format for most game engines. As for detail, with work all three geometry types can have high levels of detal.
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15-01-2005, 07:43 AM   #4
mhcannon
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http://www.headus.com/au/samples/killeroo/nurbs.jpg

http://www.tgs.com/news/Newsletter/V...urbs-model.GIF

http://www.dims.or.jp/blender/galler...nurbs_head.png

These are sample NURBS found through a google image search. Hope this gives you some idea of the level of detail that can be achieved.

On the first URL, note the heavy lines where the borders of the each NURBS patch is, and you might see why it could be difficult to animate.
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15-01-2005, 04:27 PM   #5
AlanA
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Cool stuff
Wow!! Those are really cool.

I've got some more nurbs and polys questions.
Do you know of any tutorials that demonstrate how to create a model as complex as the examples listed? I would like to see how a model is built with nurbs to compare the process to polys and SubD.

I have watched the Cartoon Dog video a few times to get a basic understanding of the process to create a model with nurbs as a starting point. But I'm not sure how the complex shapes are achieved striclty with nurbs. The examples you posted are rather complex.

Are nurbs are a a better choice for modeling if the intended use of the model is for print illustration and not animation? With advertising illustration deadlines as tight as they are I am lookiing for the most eficient process to build a model. In your opinion do you think it is easier to create the models you listed with nurbs or with polygons?

What are the pros and cons of modeling with nurbs or polygons?

AlanA



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Originally posted by mhcannon
http://www.headus.com/au/samples/killeroo/nurbs.jpg

http://www.tgs.com/news/Newsletter/V...urbs-model.GIF

http://www.dims.or.jp/blender/galler...nurbs_head.png

These are sample NURBS found through a google image search. Hope this gives you some idea of the level of detail that can be achieved.

On the first URL, note the heavy lines where the borders of the each NURBS patch is, and you might see why it could be difficult to animate.
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15-01-2005, 04:40 PM   #6
mtmckinley
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it really just depends on what you want to do and what you're doing it for.

Most media can use any geometry type, but games, for example, have to use polygons.

The biggest pro/con I think is that polygons don't have to worry about patch modeling, while with nurbs you do.
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15-01-2005, 05:26 PM   #7
DgAPc
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I'm not sure, but I think nurbs is something from the past. It used to be that all characters where modeled in nurbs for movie productions, but not no more. I believe that polys or subdivision are used more now. Most the time when you finish modeleding in nurbs you will evently convert to polys. Animating characters and texture organic things are easier in polys. Agian there's still people that use Nurbs for characters, but not as much. For a beginner I recomend that you learn how to use poly's first to create characters. Patch modeling is more for advanced users. If you want to learn how to patch model there's video tutorials at ****** website. There Organic modeling 1 and 2. Thats the only patch modeling tutorials that I know of. But there very expensive. One DVD is $69.
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15-01-2005, 08:00 PM   #8
AlanA
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good advice
Interesting. About 12 years ago when I was first looking into 3D apps for the Mac a programmer at a StrataVision seminar was talking about nurbs. I had been under the impression that nurbs were the easy way to model since. Maybe this had something to do with high poly count models and the slow processing speed of Macs at that time. It now seems like polygon is the modeling procedure that is used as a standard.

After downloading the Maya PLE and playing with it I had to purchase the program due to the ease of manipulating objects in the 3D space. So now it is just a matter of learning the process. Sounds like polygon modeling is a good start.

I appreciate the advice.

AlanA

Quote:
Originally posted by DgAPc
I'm not sure, but I think nurbs is something from the past. It used to be that all characters where modeled in nurbs for movie productions, but not no more. I believe that polys or subdivision are used more now. Most the time when you finish modeleding in nurbs you will evently convert to polys. Animating characters and texture organic things are easier in polys. Agian there's still people that use Nurbs for characters, but not as much. For a beginner I recomend that you learn how to use poly's first to create characters. Patch modeling is more for advanced users. If you want to learn how to patch model there's video tutorials at ****** website. There Organic modeling 1 and 2. Thats the only patch modeling tutorials that I know of. But there very expensive. One DVD is $69.
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16-01-2005, 02:55 PM   #9
mhcannon
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Stop by you're local large bookstore and look for a copy of "Maya Character Animaton-second edition" by Jae-Jin Choi(isbn: 0-7821-4328-8). If you have a lot of time you can browse through it at the store of if you're really committed you can buy it. It compares NURBS and subdiv modelling and thier uses (as the author sees it - all books are subjective). One of the interesting things that the author sometimes does is to model in nurbs patches then uses that model as reference to create a subdiv model. Although even the author the admits that he is increasingly modelling directly with subdiv.
For me personally, I prefer poly modelling then converting to subdiv when done an fine tuning the subdiv. But that's just me.
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16-01-2005, 05:42 PM   #10
AlanA
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just ordered the book
Great suggestion!
I did a search. Then looked at the index of the book at Amazon. Lot of excellent info so I ordered it. This will be a good supplement for my Modeling 101 training.

I also like watching Kurt's training videos which incorporate the nurbs to polygon process.

Do you have a web site or any examples of your 3D work?

Thanks,
AlanA


Quote:
Originally posted by mhcannon
Stop by you're local large bookstore and look for a copy of "Maya Character Animaton-second edition" by Jae-Jin Choi(isbn: 0-7821-4328-8). If you have a lot of time you can browse through it at the store of if you're really committed you can buy it. It compares NURBS and subdiv modelling and thier uses (as the author sees it - all books are subjective). One of the interesting things that the author sometimes does is to model in nurbs patches then uses that model as reference to create a subdiv model. Although even the author the admits that he is increasingly modelling directly with subdiv.
For me personally, I prefer poly modelling then converting to subdiv when done an fine tuning the subdiv. But that's just me.
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17-01-2005, 12:32 AM   #11
mhcannon
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Nope, no web site yet. Shooting for a March time frame when I hope to have something worth posting. Still not happy with where I'm at. But I've learned enough that I'll be teaching a introduction to modelling class locally (Honolulu, HI). In fact I'm monitoring boards like this so that I can prepare myself for the types of questions I may get asked by students. Those who can do, those who can't teach. :-)
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