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Old 09-09-2011, 07:14 PM   #1
goggles
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Default Preparing a model before texturing...

Hi,
This is my first message on the forums. Hoping to start an helpful thread... I started modelling nearly nearly 5 months ago. I have watched several tutorials on modelling , and learned alot... But when i started learning about texturing, a new problem came up. Since i learned all the aspects of modelling from here and there, and different tutorials, i kinda completed a big puzle by myself and i dont have a work flow knowledge. I put my models and complete works in my hard drive and started learning other helpful software on how to improve modelling and decrease the time on some spesific parts of modelling process. Now my problem occured when i imported an 8M polygon model into maya and tried to complete the mechanical parts of my zbrush model. I know the viewport perfomance with an avarage pc like mine is hard, but i tried to read some information about how to clean up the model before start texturing and do the grouping process. When i opened my hyerarchy, i even couldnt scroll all the window to the end. I had millions of actions saved in there and i know its not a clean project. I dont know how to group or what to delete from my model before giving it to a texture artist or animator...
I am trying to find a very helpful source on how to prepare a clean model before texturing. All the clean up process and things to do on modelling process... I feel like, if i give my models to a texture artist and say "there it is, its ready to texture...", i would get a big sharp smile and a face spasm afterwards...
A book would help, a video would help more as long as its a biiiiiigg source on how to prepare an industry standart clean model. The level im at is; I need to improove my role by learning the work flow now... I know the techniques t ocreate a model, but i dont know what im going to do with it. What extra work i need to do , to prepare this model for texturing and animation process.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:28 PM   #2
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8 million polys? You won't be animating that at all. It's not your PC. Maya isn't built to display millions of polys in the scene at once. Remove any extra edges and vertices that aren't needed. For example, a cube can have 60,000 faces; but they aren't needed! Remove them!

The general workflow to prep a model for texturing is the following:

1) Select all objects and delete their history.
2) Un-group all objects so that they aren't in a hierarchy.
3) Delete all left-over groups.
3) Merge all vertices and make sure all geometry and normals are correct.
4) Freeze the object's transforms.
5) Center the pivot on each object.
6) Create your final hierarchy, and parent the objects.
7) Freeze transforms and center the pivot on each group.

Your model should be good to go now. If you know how nodes are connected in Maya, you should also open up the hypergraph, and view each object's input and output connections, and blow away any other nodes that are there. Each object should only have a transform and a shape node.

Note: The reason why I say to blow away all groups, is that sometimes there are extra "transform1" groups left over after certain operations (separations, etc) This makes sure that your scene is entirely clean.
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Last edited by NextDesign; 09-09-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:43 PM   #3
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8m is too much indeed. I was planning to model a steampunk beholder which had mechanical boosters and stuff. I prepared the high poly an zbrush and imported it into maya. My plan was to make this 8M polygon to a low polygon object at the end with a plugin called nex. It helps you to retopologize your high poly model to a game object.

Thanks for your reply. I think im doing things wrong at the grouping, combining and hierarchy. I combined all my parts to get a single and deleted history. I am confused at this level. When i combine and delete history, combined individual parts still keep their own histories? What does grouping help ? Combine or group? whats the difference... Thats why i think i need a source to learn the aspects. I know the techniques to visualise but like a 3 year old kid drawing good pictures but in a messy way....
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goggles View Post
I combined all my parts to get a single and deleted history. I am confused at this level. When i combine and delete history, combined individual parts still keep their own histories? What does grouping help ? Combine or group? whats the difference... Thats why i think i need a source to learn the aspects. I know the techniques to visualise but like a 3 year old kid drawing good pictures but in a messy way....
By combined, do you mean an actual poly mesh combine? Eg, Edit Mesh>Combine? Just grouping the objects, and deleting the history on that won't have any effect.

Group means a group of objects. It is useful for scene organization, and rigging down the line, as you can nest them, and each nested group can have a different constraint. It is represented like this:

Code:
+-- Node1      Group1
+-- Node2  >>  |
+-- Node3      +-- Node1
               |
               +-- Node2
               |
               +-- Node3
Combine means take a group of objects, and stuff all the geometry data into one node. Hence it would look like this this:

Code:
Node1
Node2  >>  Node4
Node3
You can perform normal polygonal operations on a combined mesh. You can't on a group of MESHES

This video should give you a deeper understanding on what Maya is doing behind the scenes. http://agentfx.blogspot.com/2010/08/...a-nodes-1.html
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:27 PM   #5
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NextDesign is correct in what he has said but you are talking about zbrush witch is handled in a different way
1) creat low poly model and UVs(optional) in maya export to zbrush
2) creat high subdivision model in zbrush and texture then drop down to your low subdivision and create normal and displacement maps
3)export low poly model back to maya with maps
Hope this helps..........dave
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:24 PM   #6
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@nextdesign I will get more deeply into nodes and grouping ( i think i get the idea on what is necessary about the texturing process.)
Dave thanks for your reply, to tell the truth, mapping is whole different thing to explore for me. I am stuck into modelling the right way.

A couple of more questions... You dont have to answer spesificly all things mentioned here, I will try to explain what confuses me. Bec i need some guidence on how to progress my learning from this point where ive come...

While modelling, i had no knowledge of texturing i still have poor knowledge. And the tutorials i followed didnt get into texturing. This tutorial process (on the pictures) only showed some basic material building with maya and just applied them on the parts of model. I would like to learn more about texturing now, but when i started modelling my own work, i started to stumble upon some issues, or things i can't decide whether they are really issues i have to fix during modelling process or they are normal aspects of modelling.
The first picture shows some triangles, between the lines which forms the bewel. When i create materials and simply apply them on the object it looks fine but i dont think basic texturing will look professional. I can simply delete the tri edges and leave a gap between the bewel lines but as i heard in different tutorials, tris and edge flow is important to consider while modelling. When i try to do my models, i start thinking too much about what to do and not and can't decide which is the right way to do. So my question is, should i leave my self free on these kind of issues?

2nd picture is the complete model, i was learning the aspects of modelling and didnt even think about texture process. I started learning the basics of texturing and UV mapping and other tools to texture. Now, since softwares are improoving very fast, i started to think there should be better and ways to texture, and maybe the tutorials i watched are out of date somehow. The workflow is changing and i can't decide which to follow. When i started to learn about UV mapping and preparing maps, i turned back to my complete model (picture 2) and realised its almost impossible to unwrap this with all the bewels and geometry. And i still have issues like tris and weird geometry.

Should i worry about the texture process while modelling in every way, or should i stick with the look and feel of the model without thinking about the UV mapping process. Now that i know about some other ways of texturing i still don't know what to worry about while modelling. I searched through alot of video tutorials about workflow and modelling, and couldnt find the thing i need. Maybe i need something like filling the gap between different processes like modelling, texturing and animating....

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6577/97626983.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7387/80290733.jpg
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:32 PM   #7
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All I am trying to say is if you take a model into zbrush and try to bring it back to maya with 8 million polys it will not work you have to map them..........dave
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daverave View Post
All I am trying to say is if you take a model into zbrush and try to bring it back to maya with 8 million polys it will not work you have to map them..........dave
Thanks dave. That model was a different project. I made the model in ZBrush and imported it into maya to keep modelling the mechanical parts. But i experienced that after a while i learned i can't keep modelling with 8M pols.
You are right about what you said. I was curious if i could keep modelling the mechanical parts in maya with the high pol zbrush model active as a ref image on the viewport. But its impossible As a matter of fact the tutorial i watched was getting the zbrush model to xsi and that way he could keep modelling. Since i didnt have time learning a new software like xsi i tried to do it on maya, but i failed
On the other hand, completing a high pol model in zbrush, importing it into maya and using nex plugin to build a new topology works. Ofc, as you said, you need the maps to apply on your new low pol model...
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