Stumped on hard surface model...sorry kind of long

# 1 03-03-2010 , 08:33 PM

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Stumped on hard surface model...sorry kind of long

Hi all first of all...

I have a couple of questions if I may....

I am a film editor with no prior 3d modeling experience, who was asked by a director if I would be interested in modeling a photo realistic cold war submarine for a feature. And also creating animated underwater scenes and compositing with film plates.

LOL yea I am crazy...

I have the luxury of him being my friend and time to figure things out as I progress...so thankfully the production deadlines don't yet exist. But they will soon.

Considering the depth of Maya and for working in it for a month and figuring this out on my own things are going pretty well...

Will get harder again once I try to figure out UV's and texturing but...

Like most subs there are a lot of drain slots and holes in the outer hull and deck...

My first attempt was to use boolean difference, second attempt was to extrude each one...neither of these processes really seemed viable considering the amount of fixing geometry involved. Although I have spent time considering how I could better implement that process using booleans...I have come up with nothing practical.

My 3rd attempt/idea was to create separate extruded pieces with are smooth ready geometry and insert them where needed.

I think this is the best idea as the geometry is ready to go and I just need several pieces to cover the various types of slots and holes. Then make copies, line them up with the ortho...and insert them where needed.

But I am noobie stumped on how I can attach these pieces into the model.

I have a 3d extruded multi vertice piece I am trying to insert into a 4 sided flat plane basically.

By the way I am box modeling the sub...and my thought is to add these pieces at the initial phase while the planes are still square.

My questions are:

Is the 3rd idea viable and if so how do I best attached these extruded objects into the hull and deck planes?

And I have always assumed that in vertex land, scale is not a concern. Although I am not sure about that...

Considering this is for a feature should I be setting up my project in a different way other then basically standard cm pref's.

Basically my model is based off 50 X 50 unit orthos.

Thanks much...hope to become a part of your community here...

I certainly have found a new appreciation and admiration for the work you guys do...

School would have been good...lol.

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# 2 03-03-2010 , 09:51 PM

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I think the best way to help you is to put what you have done in WIP then ask as you go along, it is hard to tell what you are doing with just words post picture. yes I do think you are crazy............dave

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# 3 03-03-2010 , 11:45 PM

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ok cool...

The color pic is a my first proxy sub (low rez not smoothed)...and I was testing caustic's, underwater etc...
user added image

Note the slots along side the upper part of the hull...

This is one of many slots, circular holes, etc that need to go into the model.

I am looking for the best method to create all these details.

The previous methods, booleans and extruding either played too much havoc with the geometry, or was too time consuming doing extrusions and fixing the geometry for each detail.

I am starting the 3rd sub...so in the pic that follows I hope you can see the idea better.

I created an extruded piece for the slots...
user added image

I am trying to ascertain how I can attach these and other separate extrusions and or planes into the hull, deck or sail(conning tower)...
user added image

If you look at the top view ortho sub deck I think you will get the idea as all the dots are more slots on the deck...

The reason I think this is a reasonable idea is the geometry of the extruded piece is ready for smoothing or subdivision. So I wouldn't have to go and fix each one...

Hopefully that helps...

thx...

Last edited by dabu; 03-03-2010 at 11:58 PM.

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# 4 04-03-2010 , 12:21 AM

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Dabu for the long shots (ie not closeup) i wouldnt even bother modeling in that detail, a texture map with a bump or displacement map would more than suffice especially with the underwater particle atmosphere.

2 x Modeling Challenge Winner

Last edited by jsprogg; 04-03-2010 at 12:26 AM.

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# 5 04-03-2010 , 12:52 AM

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yeah thx jsprogg..the plan is to have two subs one for long shots and one for closeups...unfortunately the long shots make up about 5% of the shot list lol...

The thing I have thought of to try is to extract the plane were the pieces need to go.

figure how many extruded pieces fit in that plane combine them and shape the surrounding plane of those combined pieces to fit the extracted plane and drop it in the extracted space and merge the vertices....

but I am hoping as a noob I am missing something much easier...

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# 6 04-03-2010 , 01:05 AM

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well the geo you have pre made is easy to make all quad and just have the 4 corners verts to merge..so therefore all you need to do is (using the insert edge loop tool) put two edge loops along your subs hull the hieght of your holes(top and bottom), with this done its simple matter of cutting in the verticles as and where you need to fit your pre made geo since you with only have 4 points to merge.

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Last edited by jsprogg; 04-03-2010 at 01:08 AM.

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# 7 04-03-2010 , 01:20 AM

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awesome idea...thank you...

stupid noobs, duh...

user added image

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# 8 10-11-2010 , 06:36 PM

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Ok sorry guys, I wanted to post back on my progress but have only now come up for air.

A special thank you and apology to jsprogg for the PM I did not see until today...

I didn't realize how crazy I was luckily...I understand now how true that was.

I am working mostly on animation and dynamics now.

Underwater, ocean surfaces from above and below, etc...

Anyway I thought I would post a pic of the sub so far. Still need to to refine the textures but have been sidetracked learning dynamics and animation.

Will update again with video when I feel better about my vids.

Cheers...

user added image

Last edited by dabu; 10-11-2010 at 06:40 PM.

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# 9 10-11-2010 , 09:55 PM

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for your caustics you could use a fluid container with an RGB ramp plugged in. then use a spot light shining through it.
that way you can use the RGB channels to control depth.

Blue may be close to camera, green mid dist and red far from camera, just as an example.

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# 10 10-11-2010 , 10:04 PM

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Cool idea...I will try that thanks...

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# 11 10-11-2010 , 10:18 PM

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for detritus type stuff i would use a volume emitter with some instances. just basic geo. apply an air field (wake preset) to your sub, have it work per vertex. assign a black hole material for rendering.
you could use a turbulence field too if you like.

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# 12 11-11-2010 , 03:17 AM

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You need to work on the lighting.

Everything is either to dark or looks completely back lit. All I see is a totally black frame with a hint of something grey in it or a silhouette.

For evaluation of surface geometry ambient occlusion renders are the most helpful.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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# 13 11-11-2010 , 08:41 AM

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maybe you need to calibrate your monitor ctbram

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# 14 15-11-2010 , 09:48 PM

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Originally posted by hammer.horror
for detritus type stuff i would use a volume emitter with some instances. just basic geo. apply an air field (wake preset) to your sub, have it work per vertex. assign a black hole material for rendering.
you could use a turbulence field too if you like.

Originally Posted by

Good info...I have yet to dig into the black hole function but I will...thanks again...

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# 15 16-11-2010 , 03:54 PM

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Originally posted by hammer.horror
maybe you need to calibrate your monitor ctbram

Originally Posted by

Hammer: That is EXACTLY my point! I do calibrate ALL my monitors! People blast their brightness settings way above normal black is the problem. I use a $600 Spyder puck and calibration software and calibrate to standard. Blowing out my gamma to see stuff against a black background is not "calibration" it's de-calibration lol.

The first image posted is basically pure black with a barely discernible outline of something and the last image is completely backlit and nothing more then a silloutte.

Look at the levels histogram for the first image. The thing is basically pure black with all the information packed in the range of 0 to .5 on a scale of 0 to 255. My contention is anyone that can see the details in this image has their monitor de-calibrated!